<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>Denis, thanks for your comments. I'm not sure I share your optimism that the 'massive improvement in childcare <span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">towards a more child-centred formation, with more present fathers, may be leading to a different, less domineering politics.'</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">However it would be helpful to expand on how we might deal with our inner tyrants. Power as you say is very entrenched into our everyday social relationships. Is there a possibility of seeing each other as essentially equal, in spite of differences in wealth, status, education, ability, beauty, all the standards we use to feel superior or inferior to each other, and many of these have objective measurements which validate such judgements, and thus feel like facts we can't avoid. We may prefer to believe that people are naturally unequal and therefore treating people as if they are equal is denying reality. All this is of course pertinent to the underlying philosophy of capitalism</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I would welcome your further thoughts on this.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Anna</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><br></div><div><br>On 31 Aug 2015, at 08:28, Denis Postle <<a href="mailto:denis.postle@gmail.com">denis.postle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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Thanks for this Anna, I had missed the earlier messages. <br>
<br>
I agree that this list like most of the rest of the world, often
seems in the hidden grip of patriarchy. e.g. the tit for tat listing
of significant womanly voices. Yours is very welcome here.<br>
<br>
With one caveat, unless and until significant numbers of us,
including women, deal with our inner tyrants 'dominance' as
'natural' and 'normal' and even 'inevitable', will continue. The
caveat, that as the psycho-historians have pointed out, the massive
improvement in childcare towards a more child-centred formation,
with more present fathers, may be leading to a different, less
domineering politics. Let's hope so. The alternative means today's
men (and women) giving up a devotion to power that tends to be
deeply and often unawarely embedded. <br>
<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/08/2015 09:20, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk">anna@shsh.co.uk</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D4474FD9-4C22-4A16-B0BC-054188E3E323@shsh.co.uk" type="cite">
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<div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My
original intention in pointing out the lack of women
contributors to this book was not to give rise to the game
of 'tit for tat', in terms of equalising numbers of men
and women, that is the direction the discussion seems to
have taken.</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My
comments were motivated by the fear that these essays, and
I haven't read them, express the deep schism with nature
and reality of the patriarchal and dominator culture in
which we live, which is taking us towards self
extermination. That the lack of women contributors could
be, and it was a question, pointing to ignoring the part
women need to play in shaping our future.</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Below
Ted Goertzel writes: </span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color:
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:
rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Already today,<br>
gender is becoming a choice rather than something
biologically determined,<br>
presumably that will be more so as technology
improves. Will men be able to<br>
get surgery enabling them to get pregnant and give
birth? Or will that<br>
function be taken over by incubators? Will we be
able to have both male<br>
and female sexual organs, as some animals and
plants do? </span></font></blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
I fear that technology is going in the direction of what is
possible rather than what is desirable. And the thrill and
excitement of wondrous achievements are disconnected from
what it means to be truly ourselves, to feel whole and
fulfilled.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anna<br>
<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:
rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On 29 Aug 2015, at 06:43,
Dante-Gabryell Monson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">----------
Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Weaver" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silkenweaver@gmail.com">silkenweaver@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: 29 Aug 2015 01:24<br>
Subject: Re: Fwd for Ted Goertzel<br>
To: <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be">gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
<br type="attribution">
</span></font>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:00 PM, goertzel <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:goertzel@camden.rutgers.edu" target="_blank">goertzel@camden.rutgers.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">It seems to me that both science fiction
and futurist writing in general are largely
male domains. There are some exceptions, such
as Charlotte Perkins Gilman's Herland</span></font></blockquote>
</div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:
rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Lessing" target="_blank">Doris Lessing</a>, also Nobel
prize laureate in literature (Canopus in Argos
series))<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Mary
Shelly (Frankenstein)<br>
<br>
Ursula K. LeGuin (Left hand of Darkness!!! - a
groundbreaking work of feminist science fiction
and many others)<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
C.J. Cherryh (Hugo Award for Down Below Station)<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Connie
Willis ( 11 Hugo awards + 7 Nebula awards, more
than any other author ever!)<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Just
to name a few SF giantesses and futurists... :-)
See also: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/dec/08/top10s.science.fiction.women" target="_blank">Gwyneth Jones's top 10 science
fiction by women writers</a><br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Not
so male domain after all...<br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"></span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Weaver<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
On 29 Aug 2015, at 06:42, Dante-Gabryell Monson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message
----------<br>
From: "goertzel" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:goertzel@camden.rutgers.edu">goertzel@camden.rutgers.edu</a>><br>
Date: 28 Aug 2015 23:00<br>
Subject: Re: Fwd for Ted Goertzel<br>
To: <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be">gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
<br type="attribution">
It seems to me that both science fiction and futurist
writing in general are largely male domains. There are
some exceptions, such as Charlotte Perkins Gilman's
Herland. I don't know if Ayn Rand counts as a futurist,
but she certainly has been influential, albeit with a very
sexist view of the world. Perhaps men are more inclined to
abstract thought not grounded so directly in experience.
In The End of the Beginning we were trying to move to
focus to the more immediate future which is challenging.<br>
<br>
The second most influential secular book of the 19th
Century was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy. But the
most influential was Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's
Cabin. I don't know if the difference between the two is
suggestive of the difference between male and female
writers generally, but it is suggestive.<br>
<br>
On 2015-08-28 13:59, Jayne Gackenbach wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks Ted for your qualifiers which are excellent
points - your<br>
right re our book being more about self and yes women do
drift to that<br>
and further to be fair the VR and digital physics
sections (changes<br>
and views of reality) are all authored by men, but one -
me -<br>
anyway while i appreciate the popular press emphasis on
gender<br>
switching, the reality is that it is a very small
percentage of the<br>
population - maybe leading edge - hard to say - my point
is more along<br>
the lines of Wilber's take on gender differences in
various<br>
transpersonal practices - he comments that men want to
stare at walls<br>
while women want to hold and embrace and feel - this is
of course a<br>
bit simplistic but the dominance of male views in the
whole idea of<br>
transcending consciousness as a sort of silent stillness
or blank or<br>
pure consciousness is fine but the woman's engaged,
active, and<br>
intuitive perspective takes the experient in a different
direction -<br>
how is this related to the issues at hand here - perhaps
in how the<br>
questions are asked?<br>
<br>
Jayne<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Francis Heylighen" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:fheyligh@vub.ac.be" target="_blank">fheyligh@vub.ac.be</a>><br>
To: "Global Brain Discussion" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be" target="_blank">gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be</a>><br>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 11:07:22 AM GMT -07:00
US/Canada Mountain<br>
Subject: Fwd for Ted Goertzel<br>
<br>
[This was rejected by the mailing list, probably because
Ted is<br>
subscribed at the different address than the one he sent
this from.]<br>
<br>
From: Ted Goertzel <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tedgoertzel@gmail.com" target="_blank">tedgoertzel@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
"Boundaries of Self and Reality" sounds psychological,
which may explain<br>
why it interested more women. It is also about current
reality, not the<br>
Singularity or the Global Brain. So far as I know, no
one, male or female,<br>
has written about gender issues related to the
Singularity. Ben wrote the<br>
chapter on The Future of Human Nature in our book, but I
don't recall that<br>
he discussed gender differences.<br>
<br>
I think we might interest Humanity+ press on a book on
gender and the<br>
singularity if someone were to volunteer to organize
one. Already today,<br>
gender is becoming a choice rather than something
biologically determined,<br>
presumably that will be more so as technology improves.
Will men be able to<br>
get surgery enabling them to get pregnant and give
birth? Or will that<br>
function be taken over by incubators? Will we be able
to have both male<br>
and female sexual organs, as some animals and plants
do? If our life span<br>
is greatly extended, will we be able to have generations
of children? What<br>
would we like the Singularity to bring?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Jayne Gackenbach <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jayneg@athabascau.ca" target="_blank">jayneg@athabascau.ca</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
As a woman who is editing a book for Elsevier along
the same lines as<br>
Ben's, if a bit narrower, called "Boundaries of Self
and Reality Online",<br>
we have 18 contributing chapters lined up of which
five are authored by<br>
women. Maybe women need to ask women.<br>
Jayne<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Ben Goertzel" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ben@goertzel.org" target="_blank">ben@goertzel.org</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be" target="_blank">gbrain@listserv.vub.ac.be</a><br>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:03:28 AM GMT -07:00
US/Canada Mountain<br>
Subject: Re: Book "The End of the Beginning" finally
published!<br>
<br>
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> after forwarding this message about the book, I
was asked why there are<br>
only<br>
> men within the author list ?<br>
<br>
<br>
Well, we made a web page for the book and sent out a
bunch of emails<br>
and social media announcements soliciting authors....
Adult males<br>
were the ones who responded by sending chapters....
The author list<br>
wasn't restricted to our chums, though many who
responded were in fact<br>
our chums...<br>
<br>
I did make an effort to get geographical/cultural
representation ...<br>
but it happened that of the African and Asian
transhumanists I<br>
solicited, the ones who responded favorably and wanted
to submit<br>
chapters, were both young males...<br>
<br>
So I think this really reduces to the question of why
the overall<br>
topic of the Singularity, transhumanism and advanced
tech appeals to<br>
men more than women.... When I used to organize
transhumanist<br>
conferences, recruiting one or two good on-topic
female speakers was<br>
always something I had to explicitly strive for... I
generally found<br>
men more eager to push themselves forward and
advertise themselves in<br>
this way, than women...<br>
<br>
(Note, I am simply being empirical in the above
observations, not<br>
making any hypotheses about the causes.... But I
note that when I<br>
was working in psychology for a while in the 90s,
things I organized<br>
attracted a high proportion of females.... So this
doesn't seem to be<br>
an artifact of my or Ted's personal styles, but more
of the subject<br>
area...)<br>
<br>
-- Ben<br>
<br>
-- Ben<br>
<br>
--<br>
This communication is intended for the use of the
recipient to whom it<br>
is addressed, and may contain confidential,
personal, and or privileged<br>
information. Please contact us immediately if you
are not the intended<br>
recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
distribute, or take<br>
action relying on it. Any communications received
in error, or<br>
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.<br>
---<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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