<div dir="ltr">Thanks Paul for this intervention, some remarks inline, but first:<div><br></div><div>Your proposals are very ambitious, perhaps too much so so early in the game ? This is why my own proposals are still more focused on getting an actual commons economics off the ground in civil society, so that the public sector can start paying attention!</div><div><br></div><div>But of course, I am sure many people here are very grateful that you are pushing this, and if you can find an ear for these ambitious undertakings that would be a tremendous step forward!<br><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Paul Mason <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paulmason60@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulmason60@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">As people may know from my book Postcapitalism, I think there are several areas we can innovate p2p into at once.<div><br><div>1. The accurate modelling, using agent based models, of capitalist reality - so as to be able to design the transition virtually. That is: suppose the Welsh Assembly opted for a 50 year transition programme to sustainable post-capitalist economics. How would they validate it? So that's my #1</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I copy Louis-David Benyaher of open models for eventual input. </div><div><br></div><div>Here is a quite advanced modelling project I discovered in Ecuador: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Multi-Scale_Integrated_Analysis_of_Societal_and_Ecosystem_Metabolism">http://p2pfoundation.net/Multi-Scale_Integrated_Analysis_of_Societal_and_Ecosystem_Metabolism</a></div><div><br></div><div>and we're keeping track of modelling, metrics, accounting methodoligies here at <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Accounting">http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Accounting</a></div><div><br></div><div>Paul, any updates on your side would be welcome,</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>2. The design of regulation. So, for example, in places where basic income is being tried out - how did the regulatory process work? How did it interact with unpredictable reality? What aspects of capitalist commercial law lie in wait as obstacles?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Is anyone doing this ? I'm only aware of initiatives like Sharelex in Europe, SELC in the U.S. and perhaps Neal Gorenflo and Christian Iaione are following this in their urban work ?</div><div><br></div><div>on our wiki we use <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Law">http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Law</a>, <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_State_Approaches">http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_State_Approaches</a>, <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Public_Services">http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Public_Services</a></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>3. Remodelling of business processes. Right now everyone is throwing at me Uber and AirBnB as examples of why p2p does not have to erode capitalism. I would like to throw back at them a working design for creating non-rent seeking, collaborative alternatives to - say - Uber that a city government could facilitate. With AirBnB, for example, where local governments have intervened to tax transactions and require registration as tourist landlord etc, what is the optimal level of intervention that diverts the surplus rent from AirBnB into a recyclable tax that benefits society?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>copying Simon Sarazin of <a href="http://encommuns.org">encommuns.org</a> who has been thinking of public-commons interaction more consistently (details of what they are doing in Lille: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/100_Women_Who_Are_Co-Creating_the_P2P_Society#Interviews_completed_so_far">http://p2pfoundation.net/100_Women_Who_Are_Co-Creating_the_P2P_Society#Interviews_completed_so_far</a>)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>4. Physical space. The more physical spaces that can be run along p2p principles - or with a pro-p2p social dimension - the more chance there is of achieving critical mass in a locality. Eisenstein points out that the print shop of the 15c was a meeting place for all the disciplines that would build capitalism - printer, scholar, scientist, artist, store owner, radical thinker, skilled worker - what would the equivalent be now?<br></div><div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Definitely, this is what the open source third places are doing today !!</div><div><br></div><div>The best people monitoring this are french, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/tilios/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/tilios/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Dear Charles, could you share the excerpt that Paul is referring to just above ?</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>That's my two pennyworth this morning.</div><div>Paul Mason</div><div>Economics Editor, Channel 4 News</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Michel Bauwens</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span><br>Date: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 2:12 PM<br>Subject: Re: Continuing to fill in the context<br><br><br><div dir="ltr">I'll share my perspective on this, which may not be that of the others copied in,<div><br></div><div>my first inclination today is that the focus needs to be on constructing commons, immaterial and material, everywhere we can, and to create vehicles so that this allows the creation of livelihoods and the self-reproduction of the commoners. While the struggle between labor and capital remains a reality as long as the current political economy dominates, I think personally that all struggles that focus on bringing more labor into subordinate working relations in view of redistribution, are no longer operative, and that we must focus on counter-economic networks, with decommodified cooperative labor co-constructing commons. This means, as first suggested by Pat Conaty on this list, to create a in-between between the commons and capital, i.e. to focus on cooperative accumulation. But that cooperative accumulation can no longer be merely a coop that competes on the capitalist marketplace, but a coop that co-produces commons, and works with non-capitalist capital in a non-capitalist market. This means concretely working on the creation of entrepreneurial coalitions that are co-dependent and organized around the commons that they are co-creating.</div><div><br></div><div>Concretely, at the territorial level, this looks like what Stephanie Rearick is doing in Madison, <a href="https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/100-women-who-are-co-creating-the-p2p-society-stephanie-rearick-of-the-mutual-aid-network/2015/07/18" target="_blank">https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/100-women-who-are-co-creating-the-p2p-society-stephanie-rearick-of-the-mutual-aid-network/2015/07/18</a>, or what Marion Rousseaux is trying to do in Lille with Encommuns.org <a href="https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/100-women-who-are-co-creating-the-p2p-society-marion-rousseaux-on-the-commons-in-lille-france/2015/07/25" target="_blank">https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/100-women-who-are-co-creating-the-p2p-society-marion-rousseaux-on-the-commons-in-lille-france/2015/07/25</a>, i.e. create interlocking value chains for the cooperative commonwealth, at the local or the translocal level.</div><div><br></div><div>At the more 'trans-national' level, this means a direct focus on the creation of phyles, i.e. ethical, 'generative' business networks that sustain a community and its commons. This means projects like <a href="http://lasindias.net" target="_blank">lasindias.net</a>, enspiral, ethos, and others. (marty, you'll find descriptions of all those in the <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">p2pfoundation.net</a> wiki, via the search box on the top right)</div></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Marty Heyman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marty.heyman@gmail.com" target="_blank">marty.heyman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="">Hi to the others on the list.<div><br></div><div>My quibble, such as it is, is that Capital (Finance) pervades and largely controls … especially “the conversation.” A program to reverse its enclosures of the economic, political, and social spheres would appear to need a core of equally committed and motivated strategists with the resources to create a contrary “movement” to mobilize wealth, power, and public sentiment. Absent the “Davos” of anti-Capitalism (most importantly it’s “core team”), I don’t know how to unseat them and their “system.”</div><div><br></div><div>We need to continue to educate me on the philosophical underpinnings of terms like “the common good”. Language that feels like it pits “the common good” against “the private good” most broadly seem overly broad. Certainly the “common good” is the aggregate of the “private good”(s) of some collection of persons (and institutions). The usage here seems to want to exclude the “private good” of Finance, Capital, and Corrupt Politics …but such distinctions are hard to draw accurately as the Commons (Co-operative) and Solidarity movements rely heavily on Capital from somewhere for seed money.</div><div><br></div><div>Finally, not all the “Externalities” lead to desertification and useless waste. Vast bodies of code, design, and other technological artifacts are abandoned by Capital and Finance to our “Digital Commons”. I often think of Open Source Software as much a vast scrap-heap of discarded and abandoned code as I do a bazaar or innovation. There is too much redundant, self-gratifying “Innovation” and not enough refinement of the material already just sitting there waiting to be improved. I think, ultimately, we are seeing much the same with agricultural lands in climate zones considered non-optimal for industrial agriculture. Opportunities abound for self-directed, democratically governed initiatives and ventures IMHO.</div><div><br></div><div>—</div></span><div><div><div>Marty Heyman</div><div><a href="tel:510-290-6484" value="+15102906484" target="_blank">510-290-6484</a></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NetworkedLabour mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NetworkedLabour@lists.contrast.org" target="_blank">NetworkedLabour@lists.contrast.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div></div></div>
</div></div></div></div>