<div dir="ltr">the solution to me seems obviously not to leave the communication power in the hands of the elite only, but to democratize it and make it sustainable.<div><br></div><div>I would guess that the change in mode of production, using globally networked distributed production (light is global, heavy is local) would have the following effects, first in terms of redistribution of value:</div><div><br></div><div>* interest-free money would remove 38-48 percent of production costs that now go directly to the elite</div><div><br></div><div>* abolisning IP taxes as well would also have a huge redistributional effect, both these first measures would redirect massive amounts of capital for making production sustainable</div><div><br></div><div>* creatomg commons-producing open cooperative models would keep the surplus value within the hands of primary producers as well, causing the same re-investment potential</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The direct effects of networked local production models would be:</div><div><br></div><div>* local production would remove 75% of production costs by eliminating transport</div><div><br></div><div>* local production 'on demand' would eliminate overproduction but also the massive need for promoting consumption through mass advertising and communication</div><div><br></div><div>* open supply chains would make the transformation possible towards a massive adoption of circular economy principles and cradle to cradle design</div><div><br></div><div>* together with open book accounting this would ensure also a massive ethical shift towards fair distribution of value</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, none of these is an automatic result of technology alone, but of a techno-social appropriation of technology by struggling populations, and in the meantime, by prefigurative productive communities.</div><div><br></div><div>None of this can be done without the mutualization of knowledge and physical infrastructures.</div><div><br></div><div>Without networked technology, this can only be done by massive loss of human life. For example, without technology, the renewable transition would be catastrophic since people would revert to wood burning and other destructive practices, while solar and wind technology would ensure a much smoother transition path.</div><div><br></div><div>The answer can never be anti-technology, since the use of technology is what defines being human, but 'what technology and for whom'. The internet has to be re-appropriated, made sustainable, and put to use for a massive transition of our industrial and agricultural basis, not left into the hands of the enemies of mankind.</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Ariel Salleh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arielsalleh7@gmail.com" target="_blank">arielsalleh7@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Peter - of course, we both love a good wrestle of ideas. But I don’t see you engaging below with either - commodification - or - global warming.<div>The first topic we can save for another day, because I have work to get on with here.</div><div><br></div><div>But re global warming, as I wrote yesterday:</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>A globally just technology would not damage the planetary ecosystem that we all depend on for our very existence. The Internet has massive costs in terms of toxifying water - just as we approach “peak water”.</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>It’s global warming impacts alone should be enough to stop WSF activists in their tracks.</div><div>Then there are the medical effects of electromagnetic radiation on human bodies.</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I will be really grateful if you can point me to a serious consideration of climate impacts among any of the cyber scholars you list below.</div><div>Ariel</div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 13 Jun 2015, at 7:45 pm, peter waterman <<a href="mailto:peterwaterman1936@gmail.com" target="_blank">peterwaterman1936@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel:<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It is a pleasure to dialogue with you. But to avoid us going round in circles, rather than in a constructive spiral, I should really leave a defence of - no a positive, eco-sensitive, gender-aware - the emancipatory implications of the internet/the web/cyberspace to those better qualified than I.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So I will take issue with one one para of yours:<br><br>'No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of
‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially and culturally
embodied in this manufactured instrument the Internet. That reflects
perhaps your marxist schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an
assumption that technologies are neutral.<div>Here it seems
important to emphasise the difference between a technology and a tool.
The latter is a relatively simple object. The former brings - and
commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations.'<br><br></div><div>My Marxist schooling: A touch, a touch, I do confess. But it was, rather, a Communist schooling, to which your strictures, here and elsewhere, do certainly apply. I have been struggling with both, however, since - let's say - my first experience of living with and under Communism, in Czechoslovakia, 1955-8.<br><br></div><div>Commodification and colonisation: the first of these is pretty much associated with Marxism. The second was taken over and reworked in Marxist/Leninist theories of imperialism.<br><br></div><div>Technology: I think we have to recognise this as marked by profound internal contradictions. <br><br>It was not the intention of the railway to make it possible for French workers to take a cheap trip to London, to meet up with those of other countries, 1851 (I seem to recall). <br><br>No more was it the intention of the German Empire that their sealed train, with Lenin inside, should lead to the Bolshevik Revolution (they only wanted him to screw up the Russian Empire's war effort). <br><br>I go with the spirit of Hans Magnus Enzensberger, commenting on the Paris 1968 activists' failure to occupy the TV rather than the Opera, and to depend on wall slogans and hand-lithographed posters. He said, of the highest capitalist communication technology of that era, 'A distaste for handling shit is something sewer workers can hardly afford'. <br><br>Well, the latest capitalist technology is, in comparison, dramatically different from the shit of 1968. It has created a new universe, which I call Cyberia, of an extremely contradictory nature. It is, of course, both surrounded by shit, full of shit and productive of shit. You have stressed the ecology-destructive effects of the technology involved. These are known to those concerned with emancipation and the commons. As, also, of course, its capacity for surveillance, control and punishment. The moment of left-ish cyber-utopianism was the 1980s-90s. What I today see is a wide, varied, complex and - yes - contradictory wave of radical-democratic efforts on this novel terrain. I mention a few names: Snowden, Castells, Bauwens, Laura Agustin, Gerbaudi, Sally Burch, Dyer-Witheford, Jodi Dean.<br><br></div><div>You will be considering yourself lucky that I didn't respond to ALL the paragraphs?<br><br></div><div>Best,<br><br></div><div>PeterW<br></div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><ol><li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font color="#ff0000"><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global Justice <span>Movement: Itinerary of a Long-Distance Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br></font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li><li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. </font>Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor), December 2014.</span> <a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">'Social Movement Internationalisms'. (Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br></a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li><li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font>'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's Others', in Jai Sen (ed), Peter Waterman (co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other Worlds <font>(Part I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> (10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><br></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: Critical Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>Interface
Journal<span> Special (co-editor), November 2012:</span></span><span> </span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For the Global Emancipation of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed: a Global Labour Charter Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism </a>(2011) <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c. 1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's).</span></font></font></span></div></li></ol></div><div><table cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><font size="1">
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<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ariel Salleh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arielsalleh7@gmail.com" target="_blank">arielsalleh7@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:27 am, peter waterman <<a href="mailto:peterwaterman1936@gmail.com" target="_blank">peterwaterman1936@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel, hola!<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I am wondering whether or not you received a message I sent in response to you, dated c. May 29. </div></div></div></blockquote>Peter dear friend, I did reply - to you and Jai and Mikel all together - but it evaporated in the ether - which may well be a sign of things to come.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It might have got lost in space. I will not repeat it. But I do want to respond to what you say below (re-pasted by me so that it fits my screen).<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I know it is a pain on the eye, but I will do this para by para and in CAPS.</div></div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><i>While considering security aspects of the 2016 WSF in Canada,
remember that the more we embed our activities in capitalist
technologies like ICT the more we give up our autonomy and make our
politics transparent and vulnerable to unsympathetic powers. </i><br></div><div>I AM WONDERING WHETHER THERE ARE ANY EMANCIPATORY TECHNOLOGIES AROUND, EITHER PRE- OR POST-CAPITALIST. WE ALL USE TRAINS, MOST OF US USE PLANES, WE WATCH OR PRODUCE MOVIES, VIDEOS, PHOTOS, PRINT. OF THESE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS NOT CAPITALIST MIGHT BE PRINT - WHICH PROVIDED A MAJOR MEANS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF CAPITALISM.<br></div><div>ICT IS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY TECHNOLOGY CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED. ALL SERIOUS LEFT WRITERS ON IT EITHER RECOGNISE OR EVEN SEARCH OUT ITS PRESENT AND IMMINENT DANGERS. THEY THEN, HOWEVER, GO ON TO CONSIDER ITS AMBIGUOUS OR EMANCIPATORY POTENTIALS (AND CURRENT USES). CHECK THE NICK DYER-WITHEFORD CHAPTER I POSTED THIS VERY DAY - EVEN IF HE DOES NOT HERE SHOW ANY GENDER SENSITIVITY.<br></div></div></div></blockquote>Agreed</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><i>But the idea of an Internet Social Forum carries much deeper political contradictions than this.</i></div><div><i>Technologies
are never culturally neutral but embody value systems within them.
Recent List discussions in favour of an Internet Social Forum overlook
this by embracing wholesale a form of colonisation by the commodity
society, fully opposed to the alter-global social critique that WSF is
building on.</i><br></div><div>COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION ARE FULLY RECOGNISED BY EMANCIPATORY ACTIVISTS AND THEORISTS. SO THERE IS HERE NO WHOLESALE EMBRACE BUT A SELECTIVE USE INTENDED TO SUBVERT AND SURPASS COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION. <br></div></div></div></blockquote>No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of ‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially and culturally embodied in this manufactured instrument the Internet. That reflects perhaps your marxist schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an assumption that technologies are neutral.</div><div>Here it seems important to emphasise the difference between a technology and a tool. The latter is a relatively simple object. The former brings - and commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>SECONDLY, IT IS QUITE UNCLEAR TO ME WHAT TECHNOLOGY WOULD, FOR YOU, BE COMPATIBLE WITH 'ALTER-G' (A TERM I NEVER USE BECAUSE OF ITS DEPENDENCE ON THE G-WORD. I PREFER 'GLOBAL JUSTICE AND SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT'). </div></div></div></blockquote>A globally just technology would not damage the planetary ecosystem that we all depend on for our very existence. The Internet has massive costs in terms of toxifying water - just as we approach “peak water”. It’s global warming impacts alone should be enough to stop WSF activists in their tracks.</div><div>Then there are the medical effects of electromagnetic radiation on human bodies.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>WOULD THIS IMPLY A RETURN TO THE CHASQUIHUASI SYSTEM OF COMMUNICATION USED IN THE ANDES BEFORE THE SPANISH INTRODUCED THE HORSE.</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>WELL THAT QUITE REMARKABLE SYSTEM (OR RUNNERS AND STAGEING POSTS) ENABLED COMMUNICATION OVER 5,000 KM. BUT IT WAS AN IMPERIAL SYSTEM, USING A PRE-ALPHABETIC MESSAGING UNDERSTOOD ONLY BY THE RULERS.</div><div>FURTHER IT MUST BE POINTED OUT - AND HAS BEEN IN THIS AND OTHER EXCHANGES - THAT WSF INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN THE MOST UNDEVELOPED ASPECT OF ITS ACTIVITIES. <br></div></div></div></blockquote>Important to avoid lapsing into ideological assumptions, like the Social Darwinist notions of “development” or “going backwards”. It is part of the capitalist mythos that history is linear and upwards, whereas in fact ever new forms of idiocy and barbarism arise all around us as we speak.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><i>It is ironic that a Canadian
hosted WSF emphasising indigenous knowing and being, as well as economic
models based on de-growth, should tie itself to an instrument of global
military domination and social homogenisation.</i></div><div>NO IT IS NOT IRONIC. INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WOULD HAVE NO INTERNATIONAL, POSSIBLY NO INTERCOMMUNAL NETWORKING IF NOT FOR ICT. <br></div></div></div></blockquote>I am not so sure that this is true, Peter. Peoples have travelled across land and sea and made cultural exchanges for centuries.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH 'DE-GROWTH' (ANOTHER NEGATIVE TERM I DO NOT CARE FOR, THO I AGREE WITH THE GENERAL ARGUMENT IT EXPRESSES). THAT IS THOSE ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION AND DUMPING WELL PORTRAYED IN THE ITEM YOU ATTACHED. ANY HOLISTIC EMANCIPATORY ITC STRATEGY HAS TO PRIORITISE THIS INCREASINGLY BURNING ISSUE. MY GUESS IS THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SO. ANYONE BETTER INFORMED THAN ME ABOUT THIS?</div></div></div></blockquote>We share these reservations about the de-growth movement. It is a very tentative step towards eco-sufficiency and global justice on the part of folks in the global North.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><i>Yes,
we are already using the internet here for our communications, but that
should not imply some kind of historical inevitability. For example, I
drove a car for 3 decades, then decided to refuse the technology - one
small step towards eco-sufficiency.</i><br></div><div>I ALSO GAVE UP MY CAR, ARIEL. AND I HAVE ARGUED THAT THE STANDARD WSF MODEL IS ANTI-ECOLOGICAL IN REQUIRING AIR TRAVEL OVER LONG DISTANCES. AND WITHOUT RECOGNISING ANY CONTRADICTION HERE. BUT ARE YOU ALSO GOING TO GIVE UP AIR TRAVEL?<br></div></div></div></blockquote>The environmental costs of jet-setting to WSFs should be eased somewhat by the Polycentric WSF model. </div><div>As a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion: Australians and Pacific Islanders are both small populations and remote from other continents - so perhaps a principle of "common but differentiated responsibilities" might apply in this case!</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><i>Political
security and cultural homogenisation aside, reliance on the Internet
also has neocolonial impacts, human health costs, and severe
environmental effects - as the following article explains.</i></div><div>OK, THE ADDITIONAL ARGUMENT HERE IS THAT OF CULTURAL HOMOGENISATION. THIS HAS BEEN WELL UNDERWAY WITH TV OVER MAYBE A 50-YEAR PERIOD. THIS WAS A MAJOR ISSUE AMONGST LEFT MEDIA CRITICS/ACTIVISTS IN LATIN AMERICA. TV, LIKE RADIO, LIKE CINEMA IS PRIMARILY A ONE-TO-MANY MODE, AND IT WAS, INDEED, COMMODITISATION, THAT WIPED OUT THE INTERNATIONAL WORKER (ACTUALLY COMMUNIST) FILM AND RADIO MOVEMENTS.</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>ICT IS BASED ON THE LOGIC OF FEED-BACK AND IS, INCREASINGLY A MANY-TO-MANY MEANS OF COMMUNICATION. </div></div></div></blockquote><div>Radio is very much a two-way technology, of course - as for TV, I’ve never had one.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div>THE PEER TO PEER MOVEMENT IS, PRECISELY CONCERNED TO ENSURE THAT IT BECOMES SO, THAT IT IS DE-COMMODITISED, AND THAT P2P IS NOT CAPTURED FOR ITS OWN NEFARIOUS PURPOSES BY CAPITAL, STATE AND PATRIARCHY.<br></div></div></div></blockquote>This strikes me as illusory - and rests on a quite thin notion of commodification. P2P cannot possibly manufacture the global infrastructure itself but will needs rely on some kind of capitalised industry to do so.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><br></div><div><i>There
is a huge dilemma here for WSF - and one that cannot be answered simply
by ensuring "democratic consultation" and “protecting human rights” in
the digital sector. </i><br></div><div>IT IS NOT LIMITED TO THESE TWO AIMS OR VALUES. <br></div></div></div></blockquote>Well actually I think it is, as long as cultural, medical, environmental aspects are continually backgrounded by Left and Right alike.</div><div>A<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div><br></div><div><i>At the very least, future WSF meetings - polycentric and otherwise - must carefully Workshop these critical questions.</i></div><div>AGREED.</div><div><br>Ariel</div>BEST,<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">P.<br clear="all"></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><ol><li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font color="#ff0000"><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global Justice <span>Movement: Itinerary of a Long-Distance Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br></font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li><li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. </font>Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor), December 2014.</span> <a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">'Social Movement Internationalisms'. (Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br></a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li><li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font>'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's Others', in Jai Sen (ed), Peter Waterman (co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other Worlds <font>(Part I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> (10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><br></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: Critical Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>Interface
Journal<span> Special (co-editor), November 2012:</span></span><span> </span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For the Global Emancipation of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed: a Global Labour Charter Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div></li><li><div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism </a>(2011) <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c. 1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's).</span></font></font></span></div></li></ol></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div></div></div>
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