<div dir="ltr"><div>Paraminder I see your hand, and increase  :) </div><div><br></div><div>5 relevant items to share, which provides contradictory picture of the contradictory nature of our social relationships and their contradictory relationships to the cosmos they are embedded in:</div><div><br></div><div>a hollywood movie: </div><div>Snowpiercer (free watch online!! is p2p torrent appropriation of a Hollywood movie a good thing or a self-brainwashing)  <a href="http://movietv.to/movies/698089-Snowpiercer">http://movietv.to/movies/698089-Snowpiercer</a><br></div><div>sci-fie version of Lenin&#39;s trip...</div><div><br></div><div>an Hollywood(?) documentary: </div><div>The 11th Hour <a href="https://vimeo.com/107108296">https://vimeo.com/107108296</a></div><div><br></div><div><div>an MTv documentary on Gezi-journalism-music-techncommunicational tools:  &quot;RebelMusic Turkey&quot;  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcse_8GYIk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcse_8GYIk</a><br></div><div>reminds me MTV&#39; original mission in counter culture re-apprepriation by neoliberal capitalism</div><div><br></div><div>an event on &#39;Circuits of struggles&#39; - must have gone there - <div><a href="https://udc2015.wordpress.com/special-conference-plenaries/circuits-of-struggle-resistance-re-appropriation-and-repurposing-in-global-networks-of-class-struggle/">https://udc2015.wordpress.com/special-conference-plenaries/circuits-of-struggle-resistance-re-appropriation-and-repurposing-in-global-networks-of-class-struggle/</a><br></div></div><div><br></div><div>a first chapter of a book: must read</div><div>Cyber-prolateriat  by Nick Dyer-Witheford <a href="http://issuu.com/plutopress/docs/pages_from_dyer_cp_no_crops_05-03-2/3">http://issuu.com/plutopress/docs/pages_from_dyer_cp_no_crops_05-03-2/3</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Orsan</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 June 2015 at 12:05, parminder <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font face="Verdana">Interesting and useful conversation.<br>
      <br>
      This article, a book review, may add some further perspectives to
      it, <a href="http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/689/716" target="_blank">http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/689/716</a>
      .<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
      <br>
      parminder <br>
      <br>
    </font></span></font><div><div class="h5"><br>
    <div>On Saturday 13 June 2015 03:15 PM,
      peter waterman wrote:<br>
    </div>
    </div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel:<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It is a
          pleasure to dialogue with you. But to avoid us going round in
          circles, rather than in a constructive spiral, I should really
          leave a defence of - no a positive, eco-sensitive,
          gender-aware - the emancipatory implications of the
          internet/the web/cyberspace to those better qualified than I.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So I will
          take issue with one one para of yours:<br>
          <br>
          &#39;No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of
          ‘commodification&#39; and &#39;colonisation&#39; as materially and
          culturally embodied in this manufactured instrument the
          Internet. That reflects perhaps your marxist schooling, which
          tradition has leaned towards an assumption that technologies
          are neutral.
          <div>Here it seems important to emphasise the difference
            between a technology and a tool. The latter is a relatively
            simple object. The former brings - and commits us to - a
            whole fandangle of social relations.&#39;<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>My Marxist schooling: A touch, a touch, I do confess. But
            it was, rather, a Communist schooling, to which your
            strictures, here and elsewhere, do certainly apply. I have
            been struggling with both, however, since - let&#39;s say - my
            first experience of living with and under Communism, in
            Czechoslovakia, 1955-8.<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>Commodification and colonisation: the first of these is
            pretty much associated with Marxism. The second was taken
            over and reworked in Marxist/Leninist theories of
            imperialism.<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>Technology: I think we have to recognise this as marked
            by profound internal contradictions. <br>
            <br>
            It was not the intention of the railway to make it possible
            for French workers to take a cheap trip to London, to meet
            up with those of other countries, 1851 (I seem to recall). <br>
            <br>
            No more was it the intention of the German Empire that their
            sealed train, with Lenin inside, should lead to the
            Bolshevik Revolution (they only wanted him to screw up the
            Russian Empire&#39;s war effort). <br>
            <br>
            I go with the spirit of Hans Magnus Enzensberger, commenting
            on the Paris 1968 activists&#39; failure to occupy the TV rather
            than the Opera, and to depend on wall slogans and
            hand-lithographed posters. He said, of the highest
            capitalist communication technology of that era, &#39;A distaste
            for handling shit is something sewer workers can hardly
            afford&#39;. <br>
            <br>
            Well, the latest capitalist technology is, in comparison,
            dramatically different from the shit of 1968. It has created
            a new universe, which I call Cyberia, of an extremely
            contradictory nature. It is, of course, both surrounded by
            shit, full of shit  and productive of shit. You have
            stressed the ecology-destructive effects of the technology
            involved. These are known to those concerned with
            emancipation and the commons. As, also, of course, its
            capacity for surveillance, control and punishment. The
            moment of left-ish cyber-utopianism was the 1980s-90s. What
            I today see is a wide, varied, complex and - yes -
            contradictory wave of radical-democratic efforts on this
            novel terrain. I mention a few names: Snowden, Castells,
            Bauwens, Laura Agustin, Gerbaudi, Sally Burch,
            Dyer-Witheford, Jodi Dean.<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>You will be considering yourself lucky that I didn&#39;t
            respond to ALL the paragraphs?<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>Best,<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>PeterW<br>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
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                                                          <ol>
                                                          <li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global
                                                          Justice <span>Movement:
                                                          Itinerary of a
                                                          Long-Distance
Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism
                                                          _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br>
                                                          </font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li>
                                                          <li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font color="#ff0000">2014.
                                                          </font>Interface
                                                          Journal
                                                          Special
                                                          (Co-Editor),
                                                          December 2014.</span>
                                                          <a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">&#39;Social
                                                          Movement
                                                          Internationalisms&#39;.
                                                          (Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br>
                                                          </a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
                                                          <li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font color="#000000">&#39;The Networked
                                                          Internationalism
                                                          of Labour&#39;s
                                                          Others&#39;, in
                                                          Jai Sen (ed),
                                                          Peter Waterman
                                                          (co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other
                                                          Worlds  <font color="#000000">(Part I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">
                                                          (10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000"><br>
                                                          </font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new
                                                          millenium. Now
                                                          free in two
                                                          download
                                                          formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World
                                                          Social Forum:
                                                          Critical
                                                          Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012.
                                                          </font>Interface
                                                          Journal<span>
                                                          Special
                                                          (co-editor),
                                                          November 2012:</span></span><span>
                                                          </span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For
                                                          the Global
                                                          Emancipation
                                                          of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font color="#000000"><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font color="#000000"><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed:
                                                          a Global
                                                          Labour Charter
                                                          Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#000000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against,
                                                          Beyond: Labour
                                                          and Social
                                                          Movements
                                                          Confront a
                                                          Globalised,
                                                          Informatised
                                                          Capitalism </a>(2011)
                                                          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c.
                                                          1,000 pages of
                                                          Working
                                                          Papers, free,
                                                          from the
                                                          1980&#39;s-90&#39;s).</span></font></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
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        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ariel
          Salleh <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:arielsalleh7@gmail.com" target="_blank">arielsalleh7@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:27 am, peter waterman &lt;<a href="mailto:peterwaterman1936@gmail.com" target="_blank">peterwaterman1936@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br>
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel,
                        hola!<br>
                      </div>
                      <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
                        am wondering whether or not you received a
                        message I sent in response to you, dated c. May
                        29. </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                Peter dear friend, I did reply - to you and Jai and
                Mikel all together - but it evaporated in the ether -
                which may well be a sign of things to come.</div>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It
                      might have got lost in space. I will not repeat
                      it. But I do want to respond to what you say below
                      (re-pasted by me so that it fits my screen).<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
                      know it is a pain on the eye, but I will do this
                      para by para and in CAPS.</div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><i>While considering security aspects of the
                          2016 WSF in Canada, remember that the more we
                          embed our activities in capitalist
                          technologies like ICT the more we give up our
                          autonomy and make our politics transparent and
                          vulnerable to unsympathetic powers. </i><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>I AM WONDERING WHETHER THERE ARE ANY
                        EMANCIPATORY TECHNOLOGIES AROUND, EITHER PRE- OR
                        POST-CAPITALIST. WE ALL USE TRAINS, MOST OF US
                        USE PLANES, WE WATCH OR PRODUCE MOVIES, VIDEOS,
                        PHOTOS, PRINT. OF THESE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS NOT
                        CAPITALIST MIGHT BE PRINT - WHICH PROVIDED A
                        MAJOR MEANS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF CAPITALISM.<br>
                      </div>
                      <div>ICT IS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY TECHNOLOGY
                        CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED. ALL SERIOUS LEFT
                        WRITERS ON IT EITHER RECOGNISE OR EVEN SEARCH
                        OUT ITS PRESENT AND IMMINENT DANGERS. THEY THEN,
                        HOWEVER, GO ON TO CONSIDER ITS AMBIGUOUS OR
                        EMANCIPATORY POTENTIALS (AND CURRENT USES).
                        CHECK THE NICK DYER-WITHEFORD CHAPTER I POSTED
                        THIS VERY DAY - EVEN IF HE DOES NOT HERE SHOW
                        ANY GENDER SENSITIVITY.<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                Agreed</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><i>But the idea of an Internet Social Forum
                          carries much deeper political contradictions
                          than this.</i></div>
                      <div><i>Technologies are never culturally neutral
                          but embody value systems within them. Recent
                          List discussions in favour of an Internet
                          Social Forum overlook this by embracing
                          wholesale a form of colonisation by the
                          commodity society, fully opposed to the
                          alter-global social critique that WSF is
                          building on.</i><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION ARE FULLY
                        RECOGNISED BY EMANCIPATORY ACTIVISTS AND
                        THEORISTS. SO THERE IS HERE NO WHOLESALE EMBRACE
                        BUT A SELECTIVE USE INTENDED TO SUBVERT AND
                        SURPASS COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION. <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings
                of ‘commodification&#39; and &#39;colonisation&#39; as materially
                and culturally embodied in this manufactured instrument
                the Internet. That reflects perhaps your marxist
                schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an
                assumption that technologies are neutral.</div>
              <div>Here it seems important to emphasise the difference
                between a technology and a tool. The latter is a
                relatively simple object. The former brings - and
                commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>SECONDLY, IT IS QUITE UNCLEAR TO ME WHAT
                        TECHNOLOGY WOULD, FOR YOU, BE COMPATIBLE WITH
                        &#39;ALTER-G&#39; (A TERM I NEVER USE BECAUSE OF ITS
                        DEPENDENCE ON THE G-WORD. I PREFER &#39;GLOBAL
                        JUSTICE AND SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT&#39;). </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                A globally just technology would not damage the
                planetary ecosystem that we all depend on for our very
                existence. The Internet has massive costs in terms of
                toxifying water - just as we approach “peak water”. It’s
                global warming impacts alone should be enough to stop
                WSF activists in their tracks.</div>
              <div>Then there are the medical effects of electromagnetic
                radiation on human bodies.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>WOULD THIS IMPLY A RETURN TO THE CHASQUIHUASI
                        SYSTEM OF COMMUNICATION USED IN THE ANDES BEFORE
                        THE SPANISH INTRODUCED THE HORSE.</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>WELL THAT QUITE REMARKABLE SYSTEM (OR RUNNERS
                        AND STAGEING POSTS) ENABLED COMMUNICATION OVER
                        5,000 KM. BUT IT WAS AN IMPERIAL SYSTEM, USING A
                        PRE-ALPHABETIC MESSAGING UNDERSTOOD ONLY BY THE
                        RULERS.</div>
                      <div>FURTHER IT MUST BE POINTED OUT - AND HAS BEEN
                        IN THIS AND OTHER EXCHANGES - THAT WSF INTERNAL
                        AND EXTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN THE MOST
                        UNDEVELOPED ASPECT OF ITS ACTIVITIES. <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                Important to avoid lapsing into ideological assumptions,
                like the Social Darwinist notions of “development” or
                “going backwards”. It is part of the capitalist mythos
                that history is linear and upwards, whereas in fact ever
                new forms of idiocy and barbarism arise all around us as
                we speak.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><i>It is ironic that a Canadian hosted WSF
                          emphasising indigenous knowing and being, as
                          well as economic models based on de-growth,
                          should tie itself to an instrument of global
                          military domination and social homogenisation.</i></div>
                      <div>NO IT IS NOT IRONIC. INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WOULD
                        HAVE NO INTERNATIONAL, POSSIBLY NO INTERCOMMUNAL
                        NETWORKING IF NOT FOR ICT. <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                I am not so sure that this is true, Peter. Peoples have
                travelled across land and sea and made cultural
                exchanges for centuries.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH &#39;DE-GROWTH&#39; (ANOTHER
                        NEGATIVE TERM I DO NOT CARE FOR, THO I AGREE
                        WITH THE GENERAL ARGUMENT IT EXPRESSES). THAT IS
                        THOSE ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION AND
                        DUMPING WELL PORTRAYED IN THE ITEM YOU ATTACHED.
                        ANY HOLISTIC EMANCIPATORY ITC STRATEGY HAS TO
                        PRIORITISE THIS INCREASINGLY BURNING ISSUE. MY
                        GUESS IS THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SO. ANYONE BETTER
                        INFORMED THAN ME ABOUT THIS?</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                We share these reservations about the de-growth
                movement. It is a very tentative step towards
                eco-sufficiency and global justice on the part of folks
                in the global North.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><i>Yes, we are already using the internet
                          here for our communications, but that should
                          not imply some kind of historical
                          inevitability. For example, I drove a car for
                          3 decades, then decided to refuse the
                          technology - one small step towards
                          eco-sufficiency.</i><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>I ALSO GAVE UP MY CAR, ARIEL. AND I HAVE
                        ARGUED THAT THE STANDARD WSF MODEL IS
                        ANTI-ECOLOGICAL IN REQUIRING AIR TRAVEL OVER
                        LONG DISTANCES. AND WITHOUT RECOGNISING ANY
                        CONTRADICTION HERE. BUT ARE YOU ALSO GOING TO
                        GIVE UP AIR TRAVEL?<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                The environmental costs of jet-setting to WSFs should be
                eased somewhat by the Polycentric WSF model. </div>
              <div>As a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion: Australians
                and Pacific Islanders are both small populations and
                remote from other continents - so perhaps a principle of
                &quot;common but differentiated responsibilities&quot; might apply
                in this case!</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><i>Political security and cultural
                          homogenisation aside, reliance on the Internet
                          also has neocolonial impacts, human health
                          costs, and severe environmental effects - as
                          the following article explains.</i></div>
                      <div>OK, THE ADDITIONAL ARGUMENT HERE IS THAT OF
                        CULTURAL HOMOGENISATION. THIS HAS BEEN WELL
                        UNDERWAY WITH TV OVER MAYBE A 50-YEAR PERIOD.
                        THIS WAS A MAJOR ISSUE AMONGST LEFT MEDIA
                        CRITICS/ACTIVISTS IN LATIN AMERICA. TV, LIKE
                        RADIO, LIKE CINEMA IS PRIMARILY A ONE-TO-MANY
                        MODE, AND IT WAS, INDEED, COMMODITISATION, THAT
                        WIPED OUT THE INTERNATIONAL WORKER (ACTUALLY
                        COMMUNIST) FILM AND RADIO MOVEMENTS.</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>ICT IS BASED ON THE LOGIC OF FEED-BACK AND
                        IS, INCREASINGLY A MANY-TO-MANY MEANS OF
                        COMMUNICATION. </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <div>Radio is very much a two-way technology, of course
                  - as for TV, I’ve never had one.</div>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div>THE PEER TO PEER MOVEMENT IS, PRECISELY
                        CONCERNED TO ENSURE THAT IT BECOMES SO, THAT IT
                        IS DE-COMMODITISED, AND THAT P2P IS NOT CAPTURED
                        FOR ITS OWN NEFARIOUS PURPOSES BY CAPITAL, STATE
                        AND PATRIARCHY.<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                This strikes me as illusory - and rests on a quite thin
                notion of commodification. P2P cannot possibly
                manufacture the global infrastructure itself but will
                needs rely on some kind of capitalised industry to do
                so.<br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><i>There is a huge dilemma here for WSF - and
                          one that cannot be answered simply by ensuring
                          &quot;democratic consultation&quot; and “protecting
                          human rights” in the digital sector. </i><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>IT IS NOT LIMITED TO THESE TWO AIMS OR
                        VALUES. <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                Well actually I think it is, as long as cultural,
                medical, environmental aspects are continually
                backgrounded by Left and Right alike.</div>
              <div>A<br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><i>At the very least, future WSF meetings -
                          polycentric and otherwise - must carefully
                          Workshop these critical questions.</i></div>
                      <div>AGREED.</div>
                      <div><br>
                        Ariel</div>
                      BEST,<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">P.<br clear="all">
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">
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                                                          <ol>
                                                          <li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global
                                                          Justice <span>Movement:
                                                          Itinerary of a
                                                          Long-Distance
Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism
                                                          _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br>
                                                          </font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li>
                                                          <li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. </font>Interface
                                                          Journal
                                                          Special
                                                          (Co-Editor),
                                                          December 2014.</span>
                                                          <a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">&#39;Social
                                                          Movement
                                                          Internationalisms&#39;.
                                                          (Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br>
                                                          </a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
                                                          <li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font>&#39;The Networked Internationalism of Labour&#39;s
                                                          Others&#39;, in
                                                          Jai Sen (ed),
                                                          Peter Waterman
                                                          (co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other
                                                          Worlds  <font>(Part
                                                          I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> (10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><br>
                                                          </font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new
                                                          millenium. Now
                                                          free in two
                                                          download
                                                          formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World
                                                          Social Forum:
                                                          Critical
                                                          Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012.
                                                          </font>Interface
                                                          Journal<span>
                                                          Special
                                                          (co-editor),
                                                          November 2012:</span></span><span>
                                                          </span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For
                                                          the Global
                                                          Emancipation
                                                          of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed: a
                                                          Global Labour
                                                          Charter
                                                          Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>
                                                          <div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against,
                                                          Beyond: Labour
                                                          and Social
                                                          Movements
                                                          Confront a
                                                          Globalised,
                                                          Informatised
                                                          Capitalism </a>(2011)
                                                          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c.
                                                          1,000 pages of
                                                          Working
                                                          Papers, free,
                                                          from the
                                                          1980&#39;s-90&#39;s).</span></font></font></span></div>
                                                          </li>
                                                          </ol>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      </div></div><span class=""><pre>_______________________________________________
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