<div dir="ltr"><div>Paraminder I see your hand, and increase :) </div><div><br></div><div>5 relevant items to share, which provides contradictory picture of the contradictory nature of our social relationships and their contradictory relationships to the cosmos they are embedded in:</div><div><br></div><div>a hollywood movie: </div><div>Snowpiercer (free watch online!! is p2p torrent appropriation of a Hollywood movie a good thing or a self-brainwashing) <a href="http://movietv.to/movies/698089-Snowpiercer">http://movietv.to/movies/698089-Snowpiercer</a><br></div><div>sci-fie version of Lenin's trip...</div><div><br></div><div>an Hollywood(?) documentary: </div><div>The 11th Hour <a href="https://vimeo.com/107108296">https://vimeo.com/107108296</a></div><div><br></div><div><div>an MTv documentary on Gezi-journalism-music-techncommunicational tools: "RebelMusic Turkey" <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcse_8GYIk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcse_8GYIk</a><br></div><div>reminds me MTV' original mission in counter culture re-apprepriation by neoliberal capitalism</div><div><br></div><div>an event on 'Circuits of struggles' - must have gone there - <div><a href="https://udc2015.wordpress.com/special-conference-plenaries/circuits-of-struggle-resistance-re-appropriation-and-repurposing-in-global-networks-of-class-struggle/">https://udc2015.wordpress.com/special-conference-plenaries/circuits-of-struggle-resistance-re-appropriation-and-repurposing-in-global-networks-of-class-struggle/</a><br></div></div><div><br></div><div>a first chapter of a book: must read</div><div>Cyber-prolateriat by Nick Dyer-Witheford <a href="http://issuu.com/plutopress/docs/pages_from_dyer_cp_no_crops_05-03-2/3">http://issuu.com/plutopress/docs/pages_from_dyer_cp_no_crops_05-03-2/3</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Orsan</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 June 2015 at 12:05, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Verdana">Interesting and useful conversation.<br>
<br>
This article, a book review, may add some further perspectives to
it, <a href="http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/689/716" target="_blank">http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/689/716</a>
.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
</font></span></font><div><div class="h5"><br>
<div>On Saturday 13 June 2015 03:15 PM,
peter waterman wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It is a
pleasure to dialogue with you. But to avoid us going round in
circles, rather than in a constructive spiral, I should really
leave a defence of - no a positive, eco-sensitive,
gender-aware - the emancipatory implications of the
internet/the web/cyberspace to those better qualified than I.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So I will
take issue with one one para of yours:<br>
<br>
'No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings of
‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially and
culturally embodied in this manufactured instrument the
Internet. That reflects perhaps your marxist schooling, which
tradition has leaned towards an assumption that technologies
are neutral.
<div>Here it seems important to emphasise the difference
between a technology and a tool. The latter is a relatively
simple object. The former brings - and commits us to - a
whole fandangle of social relations.'<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>My Marxist schooling: A touch, a touch, I do confess. But
it was, rather, a Communist schooling, to which your
strictures, here and elsewhere, do certainly apply. I have
been struggling with both, however, since - let's say - my
first experience of living with and under Communism, in
Czechoslovakia, 1955-8.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Commodification and colonisation: the first of these is
pretty much associated with Marxism. The second was taken
over and reworked in Marxist/Leninist theories of
imperialism.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Technology: I think we have to recognise this as marked
by profound internal contradictions. <br>
<br>
It was not the intention of the railway to make it possible
for French workers to take a cheap trip to London, to meet
up with those of other countries, 1851 (I seem to recall). <br>
<br>
No more was it the intention of the German Empire that their
sealed train, with Lenin inside, should lead to the
Bolshevik Revolution (they only wanted him to screw up the
Russian Empire's war effort). <br>
<br>
I go with the spirit of Hans Magnus Enzensberger, commenting
on the Paris 1968 activists' failure to occupy the TV rather
than the Opera, and to depend on wall slogans and
hand-lithographed posters. He said, of the highest
capitalist communication technology of that era, 'A distaste
for handling shit is something sewer workers can hardly
afford'. <br>
<br>
Well, the latest capitalist technology is, in comparison,
dramatically different from the shit of 1968. It has created
a new universe, which I call Cyberia, of an extremely
contradictory nature. It is, of course, both surrounded by
shit, full of shit and productive of shit. You have
stressed the ecology-destructive effects of the technology
involved. These are known to those concerned with
emancipation and the commons. As, also, of course, its
capacity for surveillance, control and punishment. The
moment of left-ish cyber-utopianism was the 1980s-90s. What
I today see is a wide, varied, complex and - yes -
contradictory wave of radical-democratic efforts on this
novel terrain. I mention a few names: Snowden, Castells,
Bauwens, Laura Agustin, Gerbaudi, Sally Burch,
Dyer-Witheford, Jodi Dean.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>You will be considering yourself lucky that I didn't
respond to ALL the paragraphs?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>PeterW<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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<ol>
<li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global
Justice <span>Movement:
Itinerary of a
Long-Distance
Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism
_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br>
</font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li>
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font color="#ff0000">2014.
</font>Interface
Journal
Special
(Co-Editor),
December 2014.</span>
<a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">'Social
Movement
Internationalisms'.
(Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br>
</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font color="#000000">'The Networked
Internationalism
of Labour's
Others', in
Jai Sen (ed),
Peter Waterman
(co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other
Worlds <font color="#000000">(Part I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">
(10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000"><br>
</font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new
millenium. Now
free in two
download
formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World
Social Forum:
Critical
Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012.
</font>Interface
Journal<span>
Special
(co-editor),
November 2012:</span></span><span>
</span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For
the Global
Emancipation
of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font color="#000000"><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font color="#000000"><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed:
a Global
Labour Charter
Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#000000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against,
Beyond: Labour
and Social
Movements
Confront a
Globalised,
Informatised
Capitalism </a>(2011)
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c.
1,000 pages of
Working
Papers, free,
from the
1980's-90's).</span></font></font></span></div>
</li>
</ol>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Ariel
Salleh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arielsalleh7@gmail.com" target="_blank">arielsalleh7@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:27 am, peter waterman <<a href="mailto:peterwaterman1936@gmail.com" target="_blank">peterwaterman1936@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ariel,
hola!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
am wondering whether or not you received a
message I sent in response to you, dated c. May
29. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Peter dear friend, I did reply - to you and Jai and
Mikel all together - but it evaporated in the ether -
which may well be a sign of things to come.</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It
might have got lost in space. I will not repeat
it. But I do want to respond to what you say below
(re-pasted by me so that it fits my screen).<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
know it is a pain on the eye, but I will do this
para by para and in CAPS.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><i>While considering security aspects of the
2016 WSF in Canada, remember that the more we
embed our activities in capitalist
technologies like ICT the more we give up our
autonomy and make our politics transparent and
vulnerable to unsympathetic powers. </i><br>
</div>
<div>I AM WONDERING WHETHER THERE ARE ANY
EMANCIPATORY TECHNOLOGIES AROUND, EITHER PRE- OR
POST-CAPITALIST. WE ALL USE TRAINS, MOST OF US
USE PLANES, WE WATCH OR PRODUCE MOVIES, VIDEOS,
PHOTOS, PRINT. OF THESE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS NOT
CAPITALIST MIGHT BE PRINT - WHICH PROVIDED A
MAJOR MEANS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF CAPITALISM.<br>
</div>
<div>ICT IS THE MOST CONTRADICTORY TECHNOLOGY
CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED. ALL SERIOUS LEFT
WRITERS ON IT EITHER RECOGNISE OR EVEN SEARCH
OUT ITS PRESENT AND IMMINENT DANGERS. THEY THEN,
HOWEVER, GO ON TO CONSIDER ITS AMBIGUOUS OR
EMANCIPATORY POTENTIALS (AND CURRENT USES).
CHECK THE NICK DYER-WITHEFORD CHAPTER I POSTED
THIS VERY DAY - EVEN IF HE DOES NOT HERE SHOW
ANY GENDER SENSITIVITY.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Agreed</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><i>But the idea of an Internet Social Forum
carries much deeper political contradictions
than this.</i></div>
<div><i>Technologies are never culturally neutral
but embody value systems within them. Recent
List discussions in favour of an Internet
Social Forum overlook this by embracing
wholesale a form of colonisation by the
commodity society, fully opposed to the
alter-global social critique that WSF is
building on.</i><br>
</div>
<div>COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION ARE FULLY
RECOGNISED BY EMANCIPATORY ACTIVISTS AND
THEORISTS. SO THERE IS HERE NO WHOLESALE EMBRACE
BUT A SELECTIVE USE INTENDED TO SUBVERT AND
SURPASS COLONISATION AND COMMODIFICATION. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
No I think you are not quite grasping the full meanings
of ‘commodification' and 'colonisation' as materially
and culturally embodied in this manufactured instrument
the Internet. That reflects perhaps your marxist
schooling, which tradition has leaned towards an
assumption that technologies are neutral.</div>
<div>Here it seems important to emphasise the difference
between a technology and a tool. The latter is a
relatively simple object. The former brings - and
commits us to - a whole fandangle of social relations.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>SECONDLY, IT IS QUITE UNCLEAR TO ME WHAT
TECHNOLOGY WOULD, FOR YOU, BE COMPATIBLE WITH
'ALTER-G' (A TERM I NEVER USE BECAUSE OF ITS
DEPENDENCE ON THE G-WORD. I PREFER 'GLOBAL
JUSTICE AND SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT'). </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
A globally just technology would not damage the
planetary ecosystem that we all depend on for our very
existence. The Internet has massive costs in terms of
toxifying water - just as we approach “peak water”. It’s
global warming impacts alone should be enough to stop
WSF activists in their tracks.</div>
<div>Then there are the medical effects of electromagnetic
radiation on human bodies.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>WOULD THIS IMPLY A RETURN TO THE CHASQUIHUASI
SYSTEM OF COMMUNICATION USED IN THE ANDES BEFORE
THE SPANISH INTRODUCED THE HORSE.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>WELL THAT QUITE REMARKABLE SYSTEM (OR RUNNERS
AND STAGEING POSTS) ENABLED COMMUNICATION OVER
5,000 KM. BUT IT WAS AN IMPERIAL SYSTEM, USING A
PRE-ALPHABETIC MESSAGING UNDERSTOOD ONLY BY THE
RULERS.</div>
<div>FURTHER IT MUST BE POINTED OUT - AND HAS BEEN
IN THIS AND OTHER EXCHANGES - THAT WSF INTERNAL
AND EXTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN THE MOST
UNDEVELOPED ASPECT OF ITS ACTIVITIES. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Important to avoid lapsing into ideological assumptions,
like the Social Darwinist notions of “development” or
“going backwards”. It is part of the capitalist mythos
that history is linear and upwards, whereas in fact ever
new forms of idiocy and barbarism arise all around us as
we speak.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><i>It is ironic that a Canadian hosted WSF
emphasising indigenous knowing and being, as
well as economic models based on de-growth,
should tie itself to an instrument of global
military domination and social homogenisation.</i></div>
<div>NO IT IS NOT IRONIC. INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WOULD
HAVE NO INTERNATIONAL, POSSIBLY NO INTERCOMMUNAL
NETWORKING IF NOT FOR ICT. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I am not so sure that this is true, Peter. Peoples have
travelled across land and sea and made cultural
exchanges for centuries.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH 'DE-GROWTH' (ANOTHER
NEGATIVE TERM I DO NOT CARE FOR, THO I AGREE
WITH THE GENERAL ARGUMENT IT EXPRESSES). THAT IS
THOSE ASPECTS OF PRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION AND
DUMPING WELL PORTRAYED IN THE ITEM YOU ATTACHED.
ANY HOLISTIC EMANCIPATORY ITC STRATEGY HAS TO
PRIORITISE THIS INCREASINGLY BURNING ISSUE. MY
GUESS IS THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SO. ANYONE BETTER
INFORMED THAN ME ABOUT THIS?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We share these reservations about the de-growth
movement. It is a very tentative step towards
eco-sufficiency and global justice on the part of folks
in the global North.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><i>Yes, we are already using the internet
here for our communications, but that should
not imply some kind of historical
inevitability. For example, I drove a car for
3 decades, then decided to refuse the
technology - one small step towards
eco-sufficiency.</i><br>
</div>
<div>I ALSO GAVE UP MY CAR, ARIEL. AND I HAVE
ARGUED THAT THE STANDARD WSF MODEL IS
ANTI-ECOLOGICAL IN REQUIRING AIR TRAVEL OVER
LONG DISTANCES. AND WITHOUT RECOGNISING ANY
CONTRADICTION HERE. BUT ARE YOU ALSO GOING TO
GIVE UP AIR TRAVEL?<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The environmental costs of jet-setting to WSFs should be
eased somewhat by the Polycentric WSF model. </div>
<div>As a slightly tongue in cheek suggestion: Australians
and Pacific Islanders are both small populations and
remote from other continents - so perhaps a principle of
"common but differentiated responsibilities" might apply
in this case!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><i>Political security and cultural
homogenisation aside, reliance on the Internet
also has neocolonial impacts, human health
costs, and severe environmental effects - as
the following article explains.</i></div>
<div>OK, THE ADDITIONAL ARGUMENT HERE IS THAT OF
CULTURAL HOMOGENISATION. THIS HAS BEEN WELL
UNDERWAY WITH TV OVER MAYBE A 50-YEAR PERIOD.
THIS WAS A MAJOR ISSUE AMONGST LEFT MEDIA
CRITICS/ACTIVISTS IN LATIN AMERICA. TV, LIKE
RADIO, LIKE CINEMA IS PRIMARILY A ONE-TO-MANY
MODE, AND IT WAS, INDEED, COMMODITISATION, THAT
WIPED OUT THE INTERNATIONAL WORKER (ACTUALLY
COMMUNIST) FILM AND RADIO MOVEMENTS.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>ICT IS BASED ON THE LOGIC OF FEED-BACK AND
IS, INCREASINGLY A MANY-TO-MANY MEANS OF
COMMUNICATION. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Radio is very much a two-way technology, of course
- as for TV, I’ve never had one.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div>THE PEER TO PEER MOVEMENT IS, PRECISELY
CONCERNED TO ENSURE THAT IT BECOMES SO, THAT IT
IS DE-COMMODITISED, AND THAT P2P IS NOT CAPTURED
FOR ITS OWN NEFARIOUS PURPOSES BY CAPITAL, STATE
AND PATRIARCHY.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This strikes me as illusory - and rests on a quite thin
notion of commodification. P2P cannot possibly
manufacture the global infrastructure itself but will
needs rely on some kind of capitalised industry to do
so.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>There is a huge dilemma here for WSF - and
one that cannot be answered simply by ensuring
"democratic consultation" and “protecting
human rights” in the digital sector. </i><br>
</div>
<div>IT IS NOT LIMITED TO THESE TWO AIMS OR
VALUES. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Well actually I think it is, as long as cultural,
medical, environmental aspects are continually
backgrounded by Left and Right alike.</div>
<div>A<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>At the very least, future WSF meetings -
polycentric and otherwise - must carefully
Workshop these critical questions.</i></div>
<div>AGREED.</div>
<div><br>
Ariel</div>
BEST,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">P.<br clear="all">
</div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
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<ol>
<li><a rel="nofollow" href="http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/" target="_blank"></font></span></span></span></span></font></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><font size="1"><span style="background-color:rgb(246,178,107)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#0000ff"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global
Justice <span>Movement:
Itinerary of a
Long-Distance
Internationalis<span>t. <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"> </a><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism
_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/</a><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(Free). </span><br>
</font></span></span></span></font></font></font></li>
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><span><font color="#ff0000">2014. </font>Interface
Journal
Special
(Co-Editor),
December 2014.</span>
<a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">'Social
Movement
Internationalisms'.
(Free).</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank"><br>
</a></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000">2014. <font>'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's
Others', in
Jai Sen (ed),
Peter Waterman
(co-ed), <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">The Movement of Movements: </a></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/" target="_blank"></font></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">Struggles for Other
Worlds <font>(Part
I).</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> (10 Euros).</span></font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#0000ff"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000"><font><br>
</font></font></span></span></span></font></span></font></font></span></b></li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2012. </font>EBook:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"> </span></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">[A compilation of papers from the new
millenium. Now
free in two
download
formats]</span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span></span></span></font></span></b></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><span><font color="#ff0000">2013. </font>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World
Social Forum:
Critical
Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank">http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/</a></span></span><span><span></span></span><span></span></font></span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span><font color="#ff0000">2012.
</font>Interface
Journal<span>
Special
(co-editor),
November 2012:</span></span><span>
</span><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></font></span><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For
the Global
Emancipation
of Labour </a></span><span lang="NL"></span></font></span></b></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font><font><font color="#ff0000">2005-?</a></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1"><span lang="NL"><font color="#ff0000"> Ongoing. </font>Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a></span></font></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></span></font></span></font><font><font color="#ff0000">???. Needed: a
Global Labour
Charter
Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(2005-Now!)</a></font></span></div>
</li>
<li>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" size="1"><font><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"></font><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> <font color="#ff0000">2011. Under, Against,
Beyond: Labour
and Social
Movements
Confront a
Globalised,
Informatised
Capitalism </a>(2011)
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">(c.
1,000 pages of
Working
Papers, free,
from the
1980's-90's).</span></font></font></span></div>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div></div><span class=""><pre>_______________________________________________
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