<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>Thank you Francine. We have long been supporters of UBI here locally, which is part of the Green Party's manifesto. An allowance which is not means tested, and therefore avoids the expensive structure required for means testing, plus the suspicious atmosphere generated by accusations of fraud, is appealing. But the fact that it is available to those with high incomes, who don't need it, doesn't seem fair.</div><div><br></div><div>I have not had time to read your proposals in detail, social commons certainly brings in other possibilities. Do you have a working group looking at this that I could join? I would like to hear Ursula Huws opinions of this too, since she has written on UBI.</div><div><br></div><div>Anna<br><br><br></div><div><br>On 13 Feb 2015, at 05:15, Francine Mestrum <<a href="mailto:mestrum@skynet.be">mestrum@skynet.be</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Should a commons-oriented economy not be accompanied by a commons-oriented social policy? I have been working in the past years on a project of ‘social commons’, in between traditional social protection and basic income. I just finished a book on the topic, but that obviously is not available yet. In the meantime I send you a contribution for a conference in Spain some months ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would be happy if you could take a look at it and give me your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks a lot in advance,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Francine Mestrum<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Global Social Justice<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.globalsocialjustice.eu">www.globalsocialjustice.eu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Brussels<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="NL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Van:</span></b><span lang="NL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NetworkedLabour [<a href="mailto:networkedlabour-bounces@lists.contrast.org">mailto:networkedlabour-bounces@lists.contrast.org</a>] <b>Namens </b>Vasilis Kostakis<br><b>Verzonden:</b> 12 February 2015 15:48<br><b>Aan:</b> Örsan Şenalp<br><b>CC:</b> Vasilis Niaros; <a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>; <a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>; David Bollier; p2p-foundation; Roberto Verzola; Commoning; Eleftherios Kosmas; Wolfgang Hoeschele; George Papanikolaou; Commoning List; George Pór<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [NetworkedLabour] [Commoning] [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">With the chance of the Greek vice-president's statement, the RNS asked me to write a short article about the Syriza and the Commons. Based on some recent posts of mine at the P2Pf blog, the following text might be of interest: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Syriza’s new plan for economic development: a Commons-oriented economy? : <a href="http://nurkseschool.tumblr.com/post/110811291631/syrizas-new-plan-for-economic-development-a">http://nurkseschool.tumblr.com/post/110811291631/syrizas-new-plan-for-economic-development-a</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">By the way, this year the CommonsFest is taking place in Athens. See more: <a href="http://commonsfest.info/en/" target="_blank">http://commonsfest.info/en/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Best,<br><br>Vasilis<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 12 February 2015 at 11:28, Örsan Şenalp <<a href="mailto:orsan1234@gmail.com" target="_blank">orsan1234@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">There are comrades in the EP, like Tommaso Fattori who can make the<br>link best, in my opinon, between the commons and syriza. we could may<br>be ask them?<br>orsan<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>On 12 February 2015 at 09:55, George Pór <<a href="mailto:george.por@gmail.com">george.por@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Roberto Verzola <<a href="mailto:rverzola@gn.apc.org">rverzola@gn.apc.org</a>><br>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in<br>>> Greece...<br>>><br>> Maybe with a focus on fighting for and working with a Partner State, in<br>> collaboration with our Greek and Spanish commoner friends and<br>> commons-supporters in Syriza and Podemos...<br>><br>> george<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700<br>>> "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <<a href="mailto:whoeschele@commonsabundance.net">whoeschele@commonsabundance.net</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> > Dear Friends,<br>>> ><br>>> > Very interesting discussion!<br>>> ><br>>> > I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p<br>>> > concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in<br>>> > touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be<br>>> > useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1)<br>>> > there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere<br>>> > (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that<br>>> > break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are<br>>> > actual models that can be implemented and there are people both<br>>> > inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?<br>>> ><br>>> > It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek<br>>> > negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new<br>>> > approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a<br>>> > resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results<br>>> > for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would<br>>> > then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in<br>>> > this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there<br>>> > are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear<br>>> > from you what you think about this.<br>>> ><br>>> > By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager,<br>>> > when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is<br>>> > that personal connection!<br>>> ><br>>> > Best wishes,<br>>> > Wolfgang<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > -------- Original Message --------<br>>> > Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely<br>>> > endorses commons strategy before parliament<br>>> > From: George Papanikolaou <<a href="mailto:georgepapani@gmail.com">georgepapani@gmail.com</a>><br>>> > Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm<br>>> > To: Eleftherios Kosmas <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>><br>>> > Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>>,<br>>> > <a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>, Commoning<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.commons-institut.org">commoning@lists.commons-institut.org</a>>,<br>>> > "<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>>,<br>>> > Commoning List <<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de">commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de</a>><br>>> ><br>>> > Eleftherios thank you for the translation.<br>>> > Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2<br>>> > (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an<br>>> > important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to<br>>> > the commons ideas.<br>>> ><br>>> > Best regards<br>>> > George<br>>> ><br>>> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished<br>>> > message.<br>>> ><br>>> > Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to<br>>> > translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and<br>>> > linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not<br>>> > be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)<br>>> ><br>>> > "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br>>> ><br>>> > The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a<br>>> > commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter<br>>> > of the commons personally and in public is the following.<br>>> ><br>>> > I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with<br>>> > a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events<br>>> > happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and<br>>> > now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the<br>>> > collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually<br>>> > spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in<br>>> > the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the<br>>> > deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by<br>>> > addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social<br>>> > security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in<br>>> > Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced<br>>> > forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a<br>>> > strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which<br>>> > would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people,<br>>> > optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the<br>>> > Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of<br>>> > pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for<br>>> > us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity<br>>> > and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of<br>>> > different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that<br>>> > these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are<br>>> > those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by<br>>> > the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in<br>>> > Greece and worldwide. Thank you.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Greek speakers could find the original here.<br>>> ><br>>> > <a href="http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041" target="_blank">http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041</a><br>>> ><br>>> > I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr<br>>> > Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind<br>>> > that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek<br>>> > language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am<br>>> > not a trained translator)<br>>> ><br>>> > "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br>>> ><br>>> > The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a<br>>> > commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter<br>>> > of the commons.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>> wrote: understood Vasilis,<br>>> ><br>>> > but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management,<br>>> > and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when<br>>> > conditions are right ..<br>>> ><br>>> > so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on<br>>> > the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer<br>>> > term change,<br>>> ><br>>> > Michel<br>>> ><br>>> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Michel,<br>>> ><br>>> > The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find<br>>> > anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference.<br>>> > However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was<br>>> > what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George<br>>> > Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he<br>>> > highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south<br>>> > can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this,<br>>> > George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the<br>>> > situation and give us time for experimentation".<br>>> ><br>>> > Let's see...<br>>> ><br>>> > v.<br>>> ><br>>> > On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens<br>>> > <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote: This is very important news:<br>>> ><br>>> > perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ?<br>>> > especially in english ?<br>>> ><br>>> > see:<br>>> ><br>>> > " Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his<br>>> > speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new<br>>> > bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global<br>>> > orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable<br>>> > development."<br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<br>>> > <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a><br>>> ><br>>> > P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<br>>> > <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>>> ><br>>> > Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>>> ><br>>> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Dr. Vasilis Kostakis<br>>> ><br>>> > Senior Research Fellow<br>>> > Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance<br>>> ><br>>> > Research Director<br>>> > P2P Lab: <a href="http://p2plab.org" target="_blank">http://p2plab.org</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<br>>> > <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a><br>>> ><br>>> > P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<br>>> > <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>>> ><br>>> > Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>>> ><br>>> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><br>>> ><br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > P2P Foundation - Mailing list<br>>> > <a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>>> > <a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > <a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > <a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a><br>>> ><br>>> > ------------------------------------------------<br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > Commoning mailing list<br>>> > Commons-Institut e.V. Germany<br>>> > <a href="mailto:Commoning@lists.commons-institut.org">Commoning@lists.commons-institut.org</a><br>>> > <a href="https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning" target="_blank">https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Commoning mailing list<br>>> Commons-Institut e.V. Germany<br>>> <a href="mailto:Commoning@lists.commons-institut.org">Commoning@lists.commons-institut.org</a><br>>> <a href="https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning" target="_blank">https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning</a><br>><br>><br>><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">> _______________________________________________<br>> Commoning mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de">Commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning" target="_blank">http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning</a><br>><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Vasilis Kostakis<br><br>Senior Research Fellow<br>Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance <br><br>Research Director<br>P2P Lab: <a href="http://p2plab.org/" target="_blank">http://p2plab.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><The social commons-Valladolid (2).docx></div><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>NetworkedLabour mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:NetworkedLabour@lists.contrast.org">NetworkedLabour@lists.contrast.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour">http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour</a></span><br></div></div></body></html>