<div dir="ltr">hi Wolfgang,<div><br></div><div>we already have a strong p2p group in Greece; not only have vasilis and george and many others worked intensively on this, but we've done workshops with Syriza officials on commons transition, and the young collaborators who work with the VP have come to work with us in Ecuador; plus our associate John Restakis is there in Athens, working on the social economy with the Ministry of Labor ...</div><div><br></div><div>Outside of Greece, I would recommend connecting with the <a href="http://commonstransition.org">commonstransition.org</a> initiative, stacco is in cc, to help cover and connect globally to support the greek process,</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Wolfgang Hoeschele <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:whoeschele@commonsabundance.net" target="_blank">whoeschele@commonsabundance.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#000000;font-size:10pt"><div>Dear Friends,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Very interesting discussion!</div><div><br></div><div>I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?</div><div><br></div><div>It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.</div><div><br></div><div>By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Wolfgang</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely<br>
endorses commons strategy before parliament<br></span>
From: George Papanikolaou <<a href="mailto:georgepapani@gmail.com" target="_blank">georgepapani@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm<br>
To: Eleftherios Kosmas <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com" target="_blank">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com" target="_blank">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>>, <br>
<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>, Commoning<br>
<<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.commons-institut.org" target="_blank">commoning@lists.commons-institut.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>>, Commoning List<br>
<<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de" target="_blank">commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de</a>><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Eleftherios thank you for the translation.<br>Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas. <br><br></div>Best regards<br></div>George<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com" target="_blank">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Sorry for my previous half finished message.<br></div><span><div><br>Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)<br><br></div><div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br></blockquote><br></div></span>The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.<br><div><div><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of <b>common goods</b>, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.<br><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Greek speakers could find the original here. <br><br><a href="http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041" target="_blank">http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041</a><br><br></div><div>I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.<br></div><div> </div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com" target="_blank">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)<br><br></div><div>"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br><br></div><div>The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter of the commons.<br><br><br><br></div><br><br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr">understood Vasilis,<div><br></div><div>but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..</div><div><br></div><div>so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com" target="_blank">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michel,<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Let's see...<br><br>v.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">This is very important news:<div><br></div><div>perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?</div><div><br></div><div>see:</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."</span><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div><img src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div></div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div> </font></span></div></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Dr. Vasilis Kostakis<br><br>Senior Research Fellow<br>Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance <br><br>Research Director<br>P2P Lab: <a href="http://p2plab.org/" target="_blank">http://p2plab.org</a><br></div></div></div></div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div> </div> </div></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br> P2P Foundation - Mailing list<br> <a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a><br> <a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a></div></div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a></div></div> </font></span></div> </blockquote></div><br></div> </div></div><hr><span class="">_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div>
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