<div dir="ltr">there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rverzola@gn.apc.org" target="_blank">rverzola@gn.apc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in<br>
Greece...<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Roberto Verzola<br>
</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700<br>
"Wolfgang Hoeschele" <<a href="mailto:whoeschele@commonsabundance.net">whoeschele@commonsabundance.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Friends,<br>
><br>
> Very interesting discussion!<br>
><br>
> I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p<br>
> concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in<br>
> touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be<br>
> useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1)<br>
> there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere<br>
> (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that<br>
> break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are<br>
> actual models that can be implemented and there are people both<br>
> inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?<br>
><br>
> It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek<br>
> negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new<br>
> approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a<br>
> resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results<br>
> for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would<br>
> then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in<br>
> this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there<br>
> are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear<br>
> from you what you think about this.<br>
><br>
> By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager,<br>
> when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is<br>
> that personal connection!<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
> Wolfgang<br>
><br>
><br>
> -------- Original Message --------<br>
> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely<br>
> endorses commons strategy before parliament<br>
> From: George Papanikolaou <<a href="mailto:georgepapani@gmail.com">georgepapani@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm<br>
> To: Eleftherios Kosmas <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
> <a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>, Commoning<br>
> <<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.commons-institut.org">commoning@lists.commons-institut.org</a>>,<br>
> "<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net">tapas@lists.p2pfoundation.net</a>>,<br>
> Commoning List <<a href="mailto:commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de">commoning@lists.wissensallmende.de</a>><br>
><br>
> Eleftherios thank you for the translation.<br>
> Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2<br>
> (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an<br>
> important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to<br>
> the commons ideas.<br>
><br>
> Best regards<br>
> George<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas<br>
> <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished<br>
> message.<br>
><br>
> Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to<br>
> translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and<br>
> linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not<br>
> be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)<br>
><br>
> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br>
><br>
> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a<br>
> commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter<br>
> of the commons personally and in public is the following.<br>
><br>
> I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with<br>
> a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events<br>
> happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and<br>
> now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the<br>
> collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually<br>
> spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in<br>
> the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the<br>
> deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by<br>
> addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social<br>
> security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in<br>
> Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced<br>
> forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a<br>
> strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which<br>
> would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people,<br>
> optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the<br>
> Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of<br>
> pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for<br>
> us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity<br>
> and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of<br>
> different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that<br>
> these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are<br>
> those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by<br>
> the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in<br>
> Greece and worldwide. Thank you.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Greek speakers could find the original here.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041" target="_blank">http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041</a><br>
><br>
> I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas<br>
> <<a href="mailto:elkosmas@gmail.com">elkosmas@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr<br>
> Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind<br>
> that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek<br>
> language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am<br>
> not a trained translator)<br>
><br>
> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"<br>
><br>
> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a<br>
> commons based collective like <a href="http://hackerspace.gr" target="_blank">hackerspace.gr</a> and a strong supporter<br>
> of the commons.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list<br>
> <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>> wrote: understood Vasilis,<br>
><br>
> but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management,<br>
> and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when<br>
> conditions are right ..<br>
><br>
> so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on<br>
> the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer<br>
> term change,<br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis<br>
> <<a href="mailto:kostakis.b@gmail.com">kostakis.b@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Michel,<br>
><br>
> The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find<br>
> anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference.<br>
> However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was<br>
> what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George<br>
> Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he<br>
> highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south<br>
> can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this,<br>
> George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the<br>
> situation and give us time for experimentation".<br>
><br>
> Let's see...<br>
><br>
> v.<br>
><br>
> On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens<br>
> <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote: This is very important news:<br>
><br>
> perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ?<br>
> especially in english ?<br>
><br>
> see:<br>
><br>
> " Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his<br>
> speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new<br>
> bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global<br>
> orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable<br>
> development."<br>
><br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5">> --<br>
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<br>
> <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a><br>
><br>
> P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<br>
> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
><br>
> Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
><br>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Dr. Vasilis Kostakis<br>
><br>
> Senior Research Fellow<br>
> Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance<br>
><br>
> Research Director<br>
> P2P Lab: <a href="http://p2plab.org" target="_blank">http://p2plab.org</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<br>
> <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a><br>
><br>
> P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<br>
> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
><br>
> Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
><br>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> <a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> <a href="http://elkosmas.gr" target="_blank">http://elkosmas.gr</a><br>
><br>
</div></div>> ------------------------------------------------<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div>
</div>