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Hello Michel,<br>
It's good of you to respond so directly. I didn't intend any kind of
challenge, I was trying to figure out how I might help and couldn't
see how this could be done, ie how support for you could be
enhanced/installed/orchestrated; I realised that I knew next to
nothing about the Foundation. Since then I have picked up that there
are four people in the Foundation engine room, Orsan connected me to
a software app. page Datagraph where I posted some proposals about
commons governance, he later mentioned that there is a discussion
about the Foundation on Loomio which I will follow up.<br>
<br>
You are very generous in what you say below and I am well able to
rest with it.<br>
<br>
Greetings<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/08/2014 08:56, Michel Bauwens
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK_2xiL6jMJSW27KxSbSKZQt8WsLH9A87Vke=CEeCk7KobCbnw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">Dear Denis,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>you raise the transparency issue,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>on this list, what you see is what you get, i.e. there are
indivduals, with various levels of influence obtained either
from within or outside the list, that communicate around an
issue; I have no technical power, both because I don't like it
and have no time for it, but also actually as a conscious
decision, i.e. I can't exclude anyone by myself;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>then the p2p-foundation, well, to be frank, it's a group of
people who are communicating in various ways, pragmatically,
and hence, it is easy to feel excluded in some way, because it
is not always visible .. most of our communication are just
list of email addresses, of whatever people are most
appropriate to contribute to a certain project .. ; the end
result is, and personally, in a network of volunteers, I do
not think this is a bad thing, is that it is the contributors
that discuss , consensually, what needs to be done ;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we are now trying to be more formal, to avoid the tyranny
of structurelessness, this is done by using Loomio; if I have
understood the process well, a first phase is an open
discussion, then the decision tool is used for the major
orientation decisions, and it then moves over to the
implementors to take the day to day decisions amongst
themselves</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>remember, nobody is getting paid for this directly (we all
have indirect strategies of making a living), though kevin
will likely join us as first paid employee this october ...,
and for people who work hard for free and with limited time,
it is impossible to listen for ever to people who are on the
sidelines thinking they have the right idea of how it should
be done, without doing it themselves ..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>if we were a membership organisation, or a coop, of course
we would need to do it differently and insure every member has
a vote (which would be a counterpart of their monetary or
labor contributions)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>but peer production networks almost never work that way,
and it has been rather well studied; we are not very different
from others in this, except that we are too small to entertain
a formally democratic FLOSS Foundation</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>but the people who complain that do not have it, should be
the ones building and constructing it,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>discussions of the list are different, here everyone has a
voice provided that a few social rules are adhered to,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>in this case, we are insisting that the rule of no personal
attacks and difamation are adhered too; no one wants to take
away willi's freedom of speech, there are millions of outlets
where mutual insults are the norm, and I have no issue with
these freely chosen cultures of discourse,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>but don't forget that countless progressive outlets had to
fold and were destroyed, because they refused to maintain
their culture, such as for example Indymedia accepting
anti-semitism and a slew of conspiracy theorists (I have read
about this without knowing the ins and outs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>but if that were the culture here, I would unsubscribe,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michel</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan"
target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P Foundation: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>
- <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a>
<br>
<br>
Updates: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/"
target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a>
</pre>
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