<div dir="ltr">dear Quiliro,<div><br></div><div>let me repeat that Willi is entirely welcome to bring those views to our community , and at the same time refrain from slanderous and defamatory statements,</div><div><br></div>
<div>of course, Willi has valuable points of view, like every other human being, but he also has duties to the communities he wants to participate in, and one of those is basic respect for the intregrity of his comrades,</div>
<div><br></div><div>it's totally okay to critique someone, and to point to facts of corruption and power abuse,</div><div><br></div><div>what is not okay is to attack david bollier for being in the activist for personal gain, without bringing any reasoned argument or fact to the table, to say the Allianza Solidaria is corrupt without backup, or to say that I'm an austrian economist, CIA agent or now killing fascist, without any proof.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I have no personal animosity against Willi, I am divided between sympathy, as he does this again and again in nearly all the forums he participates in, and the feeling that this is exactly what it is looking for. How else to interpret the statement against Bollier, it was crafted in my opinion to precisely ellicit this reaction. So there is an engineering of victimhood in this case which is quite systematic and therefore must be an important subjective and pleasing function.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The P2P Foundation, and the commons / p2p movement generally needs to move from open access platforms where anything goes, and which self-destruct precisely because they accept those that want to destroy them in their midst, as happened with Indymedia and many other great platforms, who listened to the kind of absolute arguments you bring forward, or the managed commons that build community through integrity.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It's also a question of scale and time, our time is not infinite, and people who live from negative attention take a lot of valuable time from communities; in a real f2f community of course you need to deal with this differently, but online, you have to give the people the freedom to do their thing elsewhere, and bid them goodbye, respectfully,</div>
<div><br></div><div>remember the only thing necessary is to apologize for insults and slander, and indicate that you will change your behaviour, it is not complicated to be or stay in this forum; opinions are not at state; </div>
<div><br></div><div>nothing forbids you to learn from willi in private conversations, as does anyone in this community, that is the right place to put time in the complicated communication strategy, and if you privately accept slander and defamation, again, that is your good right; so I wish you the best of luck with it,</div>
<div><br></div><div>I have now to stop this dialogue, we both said our piece,</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Quiliro Ordóñez Baca <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:quiliro@congresolibre.org" target="_blank">quiliro@congresolibre.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
El 22/08/14 a las 01:04, Michel Bauwens escibió:<br>
<div class="">> this is not about opinions Quirilo,<br>
><br>
> it's about a systematic policy of defamation and disinformation,<br>
><br>
> in my case, I was accused of being an austrian economist, while i am<br>
> in opposition to it, david is accused of doing his commons work for<br>
> political gain, allianzia solidaria in quito, the best coop we've seen<br>
> in 6 months of study, was accused etc .. etc ... it is the standard<br>
> operating procedure of willi and it degrades the culture of discourse<br>
><br>
> stick to arguments, don't use freedom of speech to systematically<br>
> attack the personal integrity of your brothers and comrades,<br>
><br>
> you are free to do this, but not here,<br>
><br>
> refrain from personal attacks, and there is absolute no issue of<br>
> staying on the list<br>
<br>
</div>Thank you for your response Michel. It is an honor for me that you have<br>
taken the time to explain. Mi opinions about the issue below.<br>
<br>
This is a matter that comes up in dictatorial governments too. So, they<br>
way we behave proves or disproves our other points. If they (dictators)<br>
do it and they are wrong, then when we do it is wrong also. It is not<br>
correct just because we defend P2P and the commons. This has to be<br>
proved by our actions when it is our turn.<br>
<br>
I have been irritated by some of Willi's comments about Hellekin or<br>
about you or about me or even against Daniel Vazquez. But I have taken a<br>
deep breath and have re-read the base statements instead of focusing on<br>
the perceived offense. His statements have very deep concerns if you<br>
analyze them. They are not diplomatic. They are irritating. But they<br>
bring very important aspects to the court. We might not agree. We might<br>
feel offended to be compared in similarity with the defenders of the<br>
opposite movement or even to be called tyrants. But that can give us a<br>
great opportunity to prove them wrong by the results of what we say<br>
instead of by simple verbal defenses or attacks. If you exclude some<br>
kind of dissent based on your dissatisfaction, then you will prove<br>
exclusion in other camps and by your opponents as justified and correct.<br>
<br>
Please go beyond the feelings and concentrate on the science. Your own<br>
actions will prove that you are on your own arguments side or on your<br>
opposers side.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
--<br>
Saludos libres,<br>
Quiliro Ordóñez<br>
600 8579<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a> </div>
<div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div>
</div>