<div dir="ltr">IMO it's not his desperation or valid questions that's the problem. It's that he's unable or unwilling to express them without resorting to personal attacks and conspiratorial speculations.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:49 AM, Anna <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk" target="_blank">anna@shsh.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><div>I do not find Willi's 'desperation' as inadmissible as others seem to find it. It raises a question which is seriously being addressed in other circles about how to make a living while making one's work available to as many as possible. We can focus on the principles he raises without getting offended by the personal criticism. They are important questions. By excluding him we only weaken the diversity expressed on this list, diversity which actually enriches rather than threatens our aspirations. Individuals can exclude his contributions if they wish, without restricting the traffic of the whole.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Anna</div><div><br>On 21 Aug 2014, at 07:25, Denis Postle <<a href="mailto:d.postle@btinternet.com" target="_blank">d.postle@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
I don't doubt Willi has to go. <br>
<br>
If you are reading this Willi, your messages seem to be written from
a place of distressed desperation and I suspect that with the
Bollier book message you may, intentionally or not, be actually
seeking rejection. Some of us can get into a psy framework where
such rejection is necessary to sustain our view of the world or
ourselves and eventually we may succeed in getting our wish.<br>
<br>
That said, I wonder if there is anything we need to attend to re P2P
Foundation governance and its (our)� public presence? Don't Willi's
provocations amount to the third such attack this year on, or
resistance to, the P2P Foundation's accumulation of power? At a
minimum, the power to define what matters in economic and social
futures? <br>
<br>
I don't know the answer to this but having experienced a few attacks
myself, I have come to see all dissent, including that coming from
distress, as carrying a story that can have value for the target.
What is this opposition trying to tell us?<br>
<br>
I find the Foundation hugely valuable but I still find its, (our?)
governance less than transparent. The present debacle has been
useful for me in opening this out a bit and also in providing an
example for the parallel� discussion under 'matriarchy' which
provides a very relevant context for these questions.<br>
<br>
Thanks Michel for the facebook posting of some of my remarks there.<br>
<br>
Goodbye Willi. Take care.<br>
<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
<div>On 20/08/2014 18:09, Michel Bauwens
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I used to maintain a strong rule of no personal
attacks on the list, but I must say I have gotten tired to be
the only one reacting,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Willi, who is notorious for these kinds of attacks and
false accusations, is clearly making a gratuitous accusation
against our friend David Bollier, whom I know as a lifelong
activist for the commons, at great personal sacrifice, and the
contrary of someone who uses the commons for private personal
gain.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>does everyone find that normal ? do we have to the time to
spend answering such provocations ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>personally, it is here that I would give a warning to
Willi, and say, this is not the place for such unsupported
attacks, and please abstain or you will have to leave this
forum.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But for Willi, this is just been systematic practice, so
the warnings have been repeated endlessly in various forums,
and it has had no effect,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I'm requesting the removal of Willi from this list, as
he has been removed recently from the networked labour list,
exactly for the same reason,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kevin, as list manager, I believe this is your job?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>personal defamation is not an acceptable practice on this
list,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not going to get into a debate on this, but if any
people would find it such practices normal, I would propose to
disband this list and start a new one where this rule is made
clear from the very beginning, avoiding endless discussions on
it,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michel Bauwens<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message
----------<br>
From: <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:49 PM<br>
Subject: P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 44, Issue 43<br>
To: <a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:49:22 -0500<br>
From: willi uebelherr <<a href="mailto:willi.uebelherr@gmail.com" target="_blank">willi.uebelherr@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [P2P-F] Fwd: Book of the Day: Think Like a Commoner<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear friends,<br>
<br>
i love the contributions of hartsellml. You think, David
Bollier is<br>
working for the commons?<br>
<br>
No. You see, he want to sell his books only. Try to find a
free access<br>
to his writing. He use the commons resource, our discussion,
our<br>
visions, our doing, our history to make a private buisness
with his<br>
description.<br>
<br>
many greetings, willi<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------<br>
Betreff: Book of the Day: Think Like a Commoner<br>
Datum:� �Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:35:36 PDT<br>
Von:� � �hartsellml<br>
<br>
Book of the Day: Think Like a Commoner<br>
<br>
** Book: Think Like a Commoner<br>
<<a href="http://www.newsociety.com/Books/T/Think-Like-a-Commoner" target="_blank">http://www.newsociety.com/Books/T/Think-Like-a-Commoner</a>>.
A Short<br>
Introduction to the Life of the Commons by David Bollier.
New Society, 2014*<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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