<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Fabio,</div><div><br></div><div>I'm responding inline</div><div><br></div>FABIO wrote<div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><So the questions:</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- Could it be more productive and effective to concentrate on "our" ground:</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">P2P connections, direct connections between us, and focus on forming</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">virtual and physical communities, do business, learn and teach together,</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">produce and share our knowledge, holding up the "open" principle in</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">whatever we do, instead of tackling the state level?></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">But why not both? No social movement, whether it's labour, agrarian, women's rights, civil rights, LBTG etc .. has advanced without doing both at the same time. First we need to organize, but the state controls much of the funding and all of the regulation, so without tackling the state, no social victories are possible. The relative success and failure of the Ecuadorian flok experiment has to do, in my view, with the mismatch between what was announced, i.e. a strategic transition program fully supported by the govt, and the reality, which is that the top layers actively fought against it. The second weakness was its social basis, which was very limited. There was no real 'internal' demand. So the FLOK was a gamble, which would have worked very well if the support of the govt had been real, and worked much less, because that support turned out to be largely ilussory (but lower-level officials are engaged to make certain pilot projects happen as we speak).</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Next time, the social basis would ideally be much stronger, so that social pressure can be exerted.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">- Is the "Commons Transition" limited in any way if it doesn't espouse the</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"partner state" principle? Alternatives?</span></div><div><br></div><div>At this stage, in Ecuador, the partner state was only an idea, not a practice. Alternatives would be non-state and actually our next p2p-f project will be entirely non-state, and create collective civic structures to sustain a regional cooperative economy, BUT, can you imagine any fundamental phase transition , in a class society, that simply bypasses the state ? This would mean you have an expectation that the privileged layers and their state would simply sit idly by while their privileges are dismantled. So for me, confronting and transforming the state remains vital in any transition. But do not confuse the partner state, where the state ARE the people, with the market or bureaucratic state. Think Ancient Athens and free free medieval cities. In the meantime, we have to find allies within the complex state apparatus, who are willing to do prefigurative experiments.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><- On the other hand, we could think of a "Commons Utopia". How would it</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">operate, would there be a state? What about the law system for example? How</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">would a "Transitioned Commons" body be organized? Anarchy? Or is it beyond</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">the P2P idea to address the state level itself?></span></div><div><br></div><div>my own positioning is here .. in a nutshell, since I do not believe in the near term realization of a classless society, I think we should opt for a pluralistic commonwealth, which retains civic, private and state forms but each one internally transformed and with a new configuration, see <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-basic-orientation-of-p2p-theory-towards-societal-reform-transforming-civil-society-the-private-and-the-state/2011/07/12" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(59,89,152);text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302947998px;line-height:17.563634872436523px">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-basic-orientation-of-p2p-theory-towards-societal-reform-transforming-civil-society-the-private-and-the-state/2011/07/12</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>for the state level, I see the realization of liquid democracy as the transforming agent</div><div><br><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><I think to have understood that societal transitions don't occur in</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">isolation, or in niches, or layers, but as holistic expressions of the</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">current world view. Please forgive the rhetoric, but collaboration,</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">sharing, community, connection, along sustainability and harmony with our</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">environment and fellow living beings are new values no doubt emerging more</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">and more (along with their dark sides though: totalitarianism, control,</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">centralization, domination), which are though still trapped in a corset of</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">the status quo. So maybe with time things may "just" emerge, and we should</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">just joyfully play along and try things out, create, throw away, fork and</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">share. Utopias don't seem to work well in reality.></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">things never just emerge, they are always confronted with pressure to coopt, adapt etc ... and create hybrid realities .. so the difficult question remains, how to obtain more autonomy in these very difficult circumstances ...</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">I don't have the answer to that, but my choice is to pragmatically connect the peer producing, commons oriented communities, in order to strenghten their networks, and find the appropriate political and social expression so that they can become powerful change agents in the wider society and economy.<br clear="all">
</font><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..</b></div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div>
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