<div dir="ltr">I recommend that everyone reads Brian Holmes' analysis of the current situation, and my response / questions<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Michel Bauwens</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 at 7:43 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area elites?<br>To: "<a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>>, Jaap van Till <<a href="mailto:vantill@gmail.com">vantill@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Brian Holmes <<a href="mailto:bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com">bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com</a>><br><br><br><div dir="ltr">Very interesting contribution, from Brian, as usual <g><div><br></div><div>I copy Jaap as he just made a presentation about the euro-asiatic corridor that Brian is referring to.</div>
<div><br></div><div>
I see two issues that need to be covered. I share Brian's view of the possibility of a new kondratieff wave, which I called some years ago, the 'the high road to p2p' (high, because, even though it is capitalist, it would be more smoothly creating p2p infrastructures in a context of growth and redistribution, rather than low: bottom-up survivalist p2p in the context of global dislocation); such a high road, I argued then, would necessarily incorporate both green and p2p/distributed elements;</div>
<div><br></div><div>however, it is important that such k-wave growth would require at the same time deep structural reforms, of the kind undertaken by roosevelt in the 30s and by european post-war govt's after WWII (and now we would need this type of reconfiguration: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Russia_and_the_Next_Long_Wave" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/Russia_and_the_Next_Long_Wave</a>)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Yet, we see nothing on this sort. This could mean that the scenario would be that following the <a href="tel:1873" value="+661873" target="_blank">1873</a> meltdown, not a consistent growth, but a long series of enduring crisis, ultmately leading to world war and the russian revolution; but the difference is, there are now much more serious problems to deal with: energy and resource crisis, climate change, soil depletion and so much more grave social crisis.</div>
<div><br></div><div>What this would mean is that, all the potential for growth that we see (smart cities, internet of things, etc ..) may actually not be able to be used by capitalism for a growth wave.</div><div><br></div>
<div>So my question to you Brian is: what makes you so sure that this wave of growth is indeed coming ?</div><div><br></div><div>The second issue is: do you see Brian, the broad restructuring that is also taken place from the bottom up ? Yes, indeed, most of the p2p economy is indeed subsumed to capitalism, but, there is a huge wave of bottom up innovation, mobilisation and re-invention, on the scale of the labor movement in the latter half of the 19th cy. If you see it (I do, as I document it every day), how is this impacting your assessment of capitalist strategies. I would question any analysis that is exclusively focused on the internal dynamics of the capital class, and neglects the counter-movements and counter-restructurings that are taking place.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Just for info, if Brian has not seen it, the Commons Transition Plan we have crafted here in Ecuador, <a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan" target="_blank">http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan</a>, with the ToC at bottom.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Though the actual effect of this plan will be limited in Ecuador, it is significant that it has been commissioned, and that a global commons-oriented movement of movements is emerging from which it is derived and which is looking at it. Lots of the proposals I made a few years ago (the commons-based reciprocity license, the alliance and chamber of the commons, the global coalition of the commons), are now being taking seriously and the subject of actual experimentation on the ground, along with the thousands of other p2p/sharing/commons experimentations and projects (I'm not talkng about the business sharing economy here). Nearly every aspect of the bottom-up p2p economy (from urban gardening to co-working to rural hackerspaces) is growing exponentially, along with its capitalist similes .. (this is factually documented, I'm not just saying this, though of course, it is easier for emergent phenomena to grow exponentially).</div>
<div><br></div><div>So my second question is: how do the new social movements affect capitalist scenarios ?</div><div><br></div><div>My hypothesis is: the next k-wave may well not be coming, and with a perfect storm of really grave issues risking to coalesce say by 2030, we may need an integrated alternative, much faster than we expect.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Michel</div><div><br></div><div><li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Background_on_the_FLOK_Project" target="_blank"><span>2</span> <span>Background on the FLOK Project</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Framing_of_the_Proposal" target="_blank"><span>3</span> <span>The Framing of the Proposal</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Three_Value_Models_and_the_transition_to_a_Social_Knowledge_Economy" target="_blank"><span>3.1</span> <span>The Three Value Models and the transition to a Social Knowledge Economy</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_first_model:_.27Classic.27_Cognitive_Capitalism_based_on_IP_extraction" target="_blank"><span>3.1.1</span> <span>The first model: 'Classic' Cognitive Capitalism based on IP extraction</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_second_model:_Netarchical_Capitalism_based_on_the_control_of_networked_platforms" target="_blank"><span>3.1.2</span> <span>The second model: Netarchical Capitalism based on the control of networked platforms</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Value_Crisis_under_conditions_of_netarchical_capitalism" target="_blank"><span>3.1.2.1</span> <span>The Value Crisis under conditions of netarchical capitalism</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Towards_a_third_model:_a_mature_.27civic.27_peer-to-peer_economy" target="_blank"><span>3.1.3</span> <span>Towards a third model: a mature 'civic' peer-to-peer economy</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Solving_the_value_crisis_through_a_social_knowledge_economy" target="_blank"><span>3.1.3.1</span> <span>Solving the value crisis through a social knowledge economy</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Four_Technology_Regimes" target="_blank"><span>3.2</span> <span>Four Technology Regimes</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Netarchical_Capitalism_as_a_technological_regime:_peer_to_peer_front_end.2C_hierarchical_back-end" target="_blank"><span>3.2.1</span> <span>Netarchical Capitalism as a technological regime: peer to peer front end, hierarchical back-end</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Distributed_Capitalism_as_a_technological_regime:_the_commodification_of_everything" target="_blank"><span>3.2.2</span> <span>Distributed Capitalism as a technological regime: the commodification of everything</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Resilience_Community_Platforms_Designed_for_Re-Localization" target="_blank"><span>3.2.3</span> <span>Resilience Community Platforms Designed for Re-Localization</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Global_Commons_Scenario_as_the_desired_alternative" target="_blank"><span>3.2.4</span> <span>The Global Commons Scenario as the desired alternative</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Cognitive.2FNetarchical_Capitalism_vs._an_Open-Commons_based_Knowledge_Society" target="_blank"><span>3.3</span> <span>Cognitive/Netarchical Capitalism vs. an Open-Commons based Knowledge Society</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Socio-Economic_Implications_of_a_Social_Knowledge_Economy" target="_blank"><span>3.3.1</span> <span>The Socio-Economic Implications of a Social Knowledge Economy</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_IP_and_patents_impede_and_slow_down_innovation" target="_blank"><span>3.3.2</span> <span>Discussion: IP and patents impede and slow down innovation</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Intellectual_property_rights_and_their_supposed_role_in_cognitive_capitalism" target="_blank"><span>3.3.2.1</span> <span>Intellectual property rights and their supposed role in cognitive capitalism</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#A_synopsis_of_empirical_evidence_on_the_effect_of_exclusive_intellectual_property_regimes_on_innovation_and_productivity" target="_blank"><span>3.3.2.2</span> <span>A synopsis of empirical evidence on the effect of exclusive intellectual property regimes on innovation and productivity</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_the_role_of_Indigenous_Peoples_and_.28Neo.29Traditional_Knowledge" target="_blank"><span>3.3.3</span> <span>Discussion: the role of Indigenous Peoples and (Neo)Traditional Knowledge</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Arguments_for_the_specific_role_of_.28neo.29-traditional_knowledge_and_peoples_in_a_social_knowledge_transition" target="_blank"><span>3.3.3.1</span> <span>Arguments for the specific role of (neo)-traditional knowledge and peoples in a social knowledge transition</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_potential_role_of_commons-based_reciprocity_licenses_to_protect_traditional_knowledge" target="_blank"><span>3.3.3.2</span> <span>The potential role of commons-based reciprocity licenses to protect traditional knowledge</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_Gender_Aspects" target="_blank"><span>3.3.4</span> <span>Discussion: Gender Aspects</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Introducing_the_new_configuration_between_State.2C_Civil_Society_and_the_Market" target="_blank"><span>3.4</span> <span>Introducing the new configuration between State, Civil Society and the Market</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#What_can_we_learn_from_the_already_existing_social_knowledge_economy" target="_blank"><span>3.4.1</span> <span>What can we learn from the already existing social knowledge economy</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_new_configuration" target="_blank"><span>3.4.2</span> <span>The new configuration</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Why_is_this_a_post-capitalist_scenario.3F" target="_blank"><span>3.4.3</span> <span>Why is this a post-capitalist scenario?</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_The_role_of_the_capitalist_sector" target="_blank"><span>3.4.4</span> <span>Discussion: The role of the capitalist sector</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#A_description_of_the_new_triarchy_of_the_Partner_State.2C_the_Ethical_Economy_and_a_Commons-based_Civil_Society" target="_blank"><span>3.5</span> <span>A description of the new triarchy of the Partner State, the Ethical Economy and a Commons-based Civil Society</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_concept_of_the_partner_state_and_the_commonification_of_public_services" target="_blank"><span>3.5.1</span> <span>The concept of the partner state and the commonification of public services</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Ethical_Economy" target="_blank"><span>3.5.2</span> <span>The Ethical Economy</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_Material_and_Immaterial_Infrastructural_Requirements_for_the_Ethical_Economy" target="_blank"><span>3.5.2.1</span> <span>Discussion: Material and Immaterial Infrastructural Requirements for the Ethical Economy</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Commons-Based_Civil_Society" target="_blank"><span>3.5.3</span> <span>The Commons-Based Civil Society</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Beyond_the_market.2C_beyond_planning_.3F" target="_blank"><span>3.6</span> <span>Beyond the market, beyond planning ?</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_key_role_of_Commons-Based_Reciprocity_Licenses" target="_blank"><span>3.6.1</span> <span>The key role of Commons-Based Reciprocity Licenses</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Mutual_coordination_mechanisms_in_the_new_.27ethical.27_enterpreneurial_coalitions:_Cybersin_redux_.3F" target="_blank"><span>3.6.2</span> <span>Mutual coordination mechanisms in the new 'ethical' enterpreneurial coalitions: Cybersin redux ?</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_historical_and_present_importance_of_mutualization_in_times_of_increasing_resource_scarcity" target="_blank"><span>3.7</span> <span>The historical and present importance of mutualization in times of increasing resource scarcity</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Discussion:_The_issue_of_eco-system_sustainability" target="_blank"><span>3.7.1</span> <span>Discussion: The issue of eco-system sustainability</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Why_innovation_should_be_located_in_open_design_communities" target="_blank"><span>3.7.1.1</span> <span>Why innovation should be located in open design communities</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_role_of_.27idle-sourcing.27_and_the_sharing_economy" target="_blank"><span>3.7.1.2</span> <span>The role of 'idle-sourcing' and the sharing economy</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#A_historical_opportunity:_The_Convergence_of_Material.2FTechnical_P2P_Infrastructures.2C_Digital.2FImmaterial_Commons.2C_and_Commons-Oriented_Governance_and_Ownership_Models" target="_blank"><span>3.8</span> <span>A
historical opportunity: The Convergence of Material/Technical P2P
Infrastructures, Digital/Immaterial Commons, and Commons-Oriented
Governance and Ownership Models</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Elements_of_Idealized_and_Integrative_Full_Transition_Plan_to_a_mature_Social_Knowledge_Economy" target="_blank"><span>3.9</span> <span>Elements of Idealized and Integrative Full Transition Plan to a mature Social Knowledge Economy</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Analysis" target="_blank"><span>3.9.1</span> <span>Analysis</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#1._Under_conditions_of_proprietary_.28industrial.29_capitalism" target="_blank"><span>3.9.1.1</span> <span>1. Under conditions of proprietary (industrial) capitalism</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#2._Under_conditions_of_emerging_peer_production_under_the_domination_of_financial_and_.27cognitive.27.2C_.27netarchical.27_capitalism" target="_blank"><span>3.9.1.2</span> <span>2. Under conditions of emerging peer production under the domination of financial and 'cognitive', 'netarchical' capitalism</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#3._Under_conditions_of_strong_peer_production_under_civic_dominance" target="_blank"><span>3.9.1.3</span> <span>3. Under conditions of strong peer production under civic dominance</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Transition_Dynamic" target="_blank"><span>3.9.2</span> <span>Transition Dynamic</span></a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_State" target="_blank"><span>3.9.2.1</span> <span>The State</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Ethical_Economy_2" target="_blank"><span>3.9.2.2</span> <span>The Ethical Economy</span></a></li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#The_Commons_Sector" target="_blank"><span>3.9.2.3</span> <span>The Commons Sector</span></a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan#Political_reconstruction_of_social_movements_in_a_conjuncture_of_post-industrial_transformation" target="_blank"><span>3.10</span> <span>Political reconstruction of social movements in a conjuncture of post-industrial transformation</span></a></li>
</ul></li></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Örsan Şenalp <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:orsan1234@gmail.com" target="_blank">orsan1234@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Flawless translation of some concerns I deeply share by Brian Holmes,<br>
thanks Brian for putting it forward! passing it the the<br>
networkedlabour list:<br>
<br>
Orsan<br>
<br>
On 23 May 2014 07:47, Brian Holmes <<a href="mailto:bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> In 2008, a fellow named Mark Leonard published what was probably the most<br>
> useful book of the year, entitled "What does China think?" With great<br>
> concision he went through the country's think tanks, one by one, with a five<br>
> or six page summary of the people, the problematics and the major statements<br>
> issuing from each. The book begins with the idealism of China's New Left. It<br>
> ends with generals plotting grand strategy (of which, for them, military<br>
> strategy is only a small part).<br>
><br>
> On this list, with all our collective knowledge, contacts and capacities to<br>
> learn, we ought to do a similar analysis of the tech companies in the Bay<br>
> Area (and perhaps other major technology development hubs). How do the<br>
> network elites see the future? How do they believe they can direct the<br>
> global development forces which are already managed, day in day out, by the<br>
> computational routines embedded in their products? What are their politics<br>
> and geopolitics? And how do they "think" via cables, software, devices and<br>
> infrastructure design? A deep and detailed understanding of what is being<br>
> discussed by such elites today would be far more useful than the superficial<br>
> critique so commonly produced on the blogosphere and conference circuit (let<br>
> alone the bickering that Felix denounced).<br>
><br>
> As some of you know, I'm convinced that for better and for worse there will<br>
> be a new economic growth wave rising in the next few years, in response to<br>
> the current dead-end and generalized climate of fear and uncertainty. This<br>
> is common sense among corporate elites, so they are quite interested in the<br>
> subject. Following a suggestion by Örsan Şenalp, I have been looking at the<br>
> latest writings of Jeremy Rifkin, an American tech and business guru who has<br>
> set up shop in the EU and advises European governments, particularly<br>
> Germany. I am listening right now to the talk he gave in the Google authors<br>
> series. I recommend it. Beyond the deflatable hype about the "zero marginal<br>
> cost" of production in a totally networked p2p economy, it is clear that<br>
> tech elites and the governmental sectors they have in their pockets foresee<br>
> an intensification and systematization of the wired and wireless economy,<br>
> based on the multiplication and interconnection of microprocessors and<br>
> analytic software apps (that's the famous "Internet of Things," hats off to<br>
> Rob van Kranenburg for proposing to study its philosophy). Major economic<br>
> and social consequences can in effect be expected from this interconnection.<br>
><br>
> On the one hand, you're a thing: everything you do on the networks is<br>
> tracked, surveilled, compiled, analyzed. Fair enough, on nettime we've had<br>
> that aspect covered for years. On the other hand, every humble material<br>
> thing is an entity in a network ontology: and far beyond the<br>
> one-size-fits-all fantasy of ubquitous RFID chips, what's emerging is a new<br>
> logistics system for global distribution of energy, raw materials and<br>
> manufactures (some of it is already built and operational). You can also<br>
> throw in a new generation of assembly-lines robotics (including industrial<br>
> maker-bots) and a new personal transport system (the driverless car, in<br>
> which Google itself is so deeply invested). As Florian Cramer pointed out in<br>
> a reply to Van Kranenburg, this kind of pervasively networked system not<br>
> only opens up tremendous possibilities of horizontal cooperation (between<br>
> persons, businesses and institutions) but also, huge security holes like the<br>
> Heartbleed OpenSSL disaster: so the networked elites are very interested in<br>
> how to govern the system they are creating.<br>
><br>
> Think a little bit about the Heartbleed-type problem, to the 10th power. The<br>
> infamous book by Eric Schmidt and Jared what's-his-name, the Washington<br>
> security goon, is no accident. In American history, we lived through the<br>
> capitalist development of the giant mass-production corporation, epitomized<br>
> by the Ford Motor Co., from <a href="tel:1900" value="+661900" target="_blank">1900</a> to <a href="tel:1940" value="+661940" target="_blank">1940</a>; and then, after those kinds of<br>
> productive forces issued in the most devastating war imaiginable, we lived<br>
> through the government orchestrated systematization of mass production, in<br>
> the postwar "Fordist" period from <a href="tel:1945" value="+661945" target="_blank">1945</a> to <a href="tel:1973" value="+661973" target="_blank">1973</a>. There is a dialectic here:<br>
> the initial development of a productive system is followed by a major cisis;<br>
> then that productive system is reworked, rationalized and integrated to a<br>
> social order (or at least, the capitalist version thereof).<br>
><br>
> Under the long shadows of 9/11 and the 2008 crisis, the Bay Area elites,<br>
> whether at Google, Cisco, HP or Apple, seem to be moving toward a fragile<br>
> and probably untenable consensus that "something similar" will happen again.<br>
> In other words, somehow, somehow, the US will find a social and governmental<br>
> synthesis that allows techno-economic development to be guided by and for<br>
> giant US corporations. And somehow (this is where the "thinking" gets<br>
> extremely magical) this synthesis will be libertarian, user-friendly,<br>
> horizontal, wild-west, and so forth.<br>
><br>
> As for Rifkin, he represents a more pragmatic East Coast version of the<br>
> Californian Ideology (and he actually grew up in Chicago). Like many<br>
> so-called progressive American intellectuals, he found a better reception<br>
> for his ideas in Europe, where, since the days of Bernstein and early German<br>
> social democracy, a left ideology is considered a necessary mask on<br>
> capitalist development. Rifkin's ideas about the smart electric grid and the<br>
> Internet of Things now appeal to both the German and the Chinese<br>
> governments. They appear to believe that recent technological developments<br>
> can be fused into a new productive order, manifested in the extension of<br>
> railways lines and development corridors across the entire Eurasian landmass<br>
> (the giant free-trade/logistics project that the Chinese call "The New Silk<br>
> Road"). They want to put German hi-tech, European consumption, and Asian<br>
> manufacturing capacity together, and mitigate climate change along the way.<br>
><br>
> The green capitalism widely denounced on the eco-anarchist left coalesces<br>
> here, in the concept of a Euro-Sinic (or perhaps, Euro-Sinical) production<br>
> system whose green ideology would cover massive Chinese infrastructure<br>
> investments, with Germany replacing the US as the key banker and<br>
> technological and scientific partner. This perspective thinks big, on the<br>
> scale of Eurasia. The aim is to use capitalist modenization to guide the<br>
> largest part of the world's population through the devastating first half of<br>
> the twenty-first century, as inequalities grow worse and climate change<br>
> takes hold. Of course the Euro-Sinical program itself will accelerate those<br>
> same contradictions...<br>
><br>
> How do the Bay Area elites situate themselves within this emerging<br>
> world-picture? What is their consensus, and where does it fall apart? Who<br>
> has the greatest power to set the agendas? And to what degree do these tech<br>
> elites remain unconscious and merely reactive? I do not claim to know the<br>
> answers, certainly not in the necessary detail. The facile "critique" of<br>
> this or that form of evil-doing is definitely blocking us from even grasping<br>
> how Google thinks, and how Apple-Cisco-HP-etc thinks, and how they get<br>
> together and think with BofA and Wells Fargo and Citi and the NSA and the<br>
> DoD and so forth.<br>
><br>
> In short, I see two mistakes, dear nettimers. One is failing to see that the<br>
> Bay Area elites and their interlocutors are fully engaged in the titanic<br>
> project of imagining, designing and governing a pervasively networked social<br>
> system on a global scale. The second one is the failure to see that they are<br>
> not alone, and that similar problems are being dealt with by potentially<br>
> more organized and more powerful forces, who do not think in purely<br>
> communicational and financial terms, but instead deal also with large-scale<br>
> industry.<br>
><br>
> best, Brian<br>
><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div>
</font></span></div>
</div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..</b></div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div>
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