<div dir="ltr">your questions were published on february 3 and I started responding,<div><br></div><div>see <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/questions-for-commoners-regarding-currencies/2014/02/03#comment-637357">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/questions-for-commoners-regarding-currencies/2014/02/03#comment-637357</a></div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:30 AM, Mike Riddell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike@hometownplus.co.uk" target="_blank">mike@hometownplus.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:14px;font-family:'Courier New',sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div>Thanks Michel. We will continue the dialogue.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best wishes, Mike.</div><div><div><font color="#000000"><font face="Courier New"><b>Mike Riddell</b></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font face="Courier New"><b>PLUSME LIMITED </b></font></font></div>
<div>07711 667725</div></div></div></div><div><br></div><span><div style="border-right:medium none;padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-top:3pt;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-bottom:medium none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;padding-bottom:0in;border-left:medium none">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Monday, 27 January 2014 21:26<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Mike Riddell <<a href="mailto:mike@hometownplus.co.uk" target="_blank">mike@hometownplus.co.uk</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Fwd: P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 37, Issue 48<br>
</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">responses on our p2p-f mailing list<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation-request@lists.ourproject.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 1:09 PM<br>Subject: P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 37, Issue 48<br>To: <a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a><br><br><br>Send P2P-Foundation mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br><br>
1. Re: can anyone reach javier, our wiki tech support<br>
(Michel Bauwens)<br>
2. Fwd: Articles on FLOK in the Spanish newspapers (Michel Bauwens)<br>
3. Re: commons / market / currency questions by Mike Riddell<br>
(Karl Robillard)<br>
4. Email Archives (Karl Robillard)<br>
5. Re: commons / market / currency questions by Mike Riddell<br>
(Fabio Barone)<br><br><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:15:06 -0500<br>
From: Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] can anyone reach javier, our wiki tech support<br>
To: p2p-foundation <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>>, Kevin<br>
Flanagan <<a href="mailto:kev.flanagan@gmail.com" target="_blank">kev.flanagan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAK_2xiLfw7m+EDntXMSYmTNT=<a href="mailto:J3tQRN-X_5CTr6P1SrcN8eDUg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">J3tQRN-X_5CTr6P1SrcN8eDUg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>
he responded, checking the responses know, thanks Kevin<br><br>
<<Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:11:22 +0100<br>
From: Kevin Flanagan <<a href="mailto:kev.flanagan@gmail.com" target="_blank">kev.flanagan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] can anyone reach javier, our wiki tech support<br>
To: P2P Foundation mailing list <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CACpSwUdk3YpkewEXzgMwJLJJ9rwSBXkryiWBKU%2B0qa6LscDx2A@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CACpSwUdk3YpkewEXzgMwJLJJ9rwSBXkryiWBKU+0qa6LscDx2A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>
Hi Michel unfortunately its 6 in the morning here. I can ring him at 9 if<br>
he doesn't. respond.<br>
On 2014-01-27 4:15 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br><br>
> the unannounced wiki transfer went wrong with thousands of hours of<br>
> research material lost and this is quite distressing,<br>
><br>
> can anyone reach javier, as I can't get any response in any medium ?<br>
><br><br>
--<br>
P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br><br>
<<a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a>>Updates:<br><a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:18:08 -0500<br>
From: Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>><br>
Subject: [P2P-F] Fwd: Articles on FLOK in the Spanish newspapers<br>
To: p2p-foundation <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>>, Andr?s<br>
Delgado <<a href="mailto:andres@floksociety.org" target="_blank">andres@floksociety.org</a>>, Mar?a Cristina Mart?nez Bravo<br>
<<a href="mailto:crism321@gmail.com" target="_blank">crism321@gmail.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAK_2xiJQxkpXvPskaAoKdX2Umz4zyZEweE6KE7Quv-VKNVqvDw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAK_2xiJQxkpXvPskaAoKdX2Umz4zyZEweE6KE7Quv-VKNVqvDw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Kevin Flanagan <<a href="mailto:kev.flanagan@gmail.com" target="_blank">kev.flanagan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 7:14 AM<br>
Subject: Re: Articles on FLOK in the Spanish newspapers<br>
To: David Rozas <<a href="mailto:david.rozas@gmail.com" target="_blank">david.rozas@gmail.com</a>>, Michael Bauwen <<br><a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br><br>
Thank you very much for the Flok articles David. Speak with you soon.<br><br>
Kevin<br><br><br>
On 27 January 2014 13:03, David Rozas <<a href="mailto:david.rozas@gmail.com" target="_blank">david.rozas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
> Hi Kevin,<br>
><br>
> At the end, we managed to make it on time to the airport! ;-D<br>
><br>
> Please find below some links with references to the FLOK Society in<br>
> Spanish newspapers and social news websites:<br>
><br>
> -<br>
> <a href="http://www.eldiario.es/turing/Ecuador-Rafael_Correa-FLOK_Society-buen_vivir-sumak_kawsay-procomun-p2p-copyleft-patentes_0_209279080.html(Spanish" target="_blank">http://www.eldiario.es/turing/Ecuador-Rafael_Correa-FLOK_Society-buen_vivir-sumak_kawsay-procomun-p2p-copyleft-patentes_0_209279080.html(Spanish</a> newspaper).<br>
> - <a href="http://www.meneame.net/story/ecuador-pone-rumbo-economia-bien-comun(comments" target="_blank">http://www.meneame.net/story/ecuador-pone-rumbo-economia-bien-comun(comments</a> on a popular social news site).<br>
> - <a href="http://americas.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=13/12/11/2050237" target="_blank">http://americas.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=13/12/11/2050237</a> (link<br>
> in the Spanish version of Slashdot).<br>
><br>
> If I read some more, I will forward them to you.<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> David<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Personal website [en|es]: <a href="http://www.davidrozas.com" target="_blank">http://www.davidrozas.com</a><br>
> Public key: <a href="http://www.davidrozas.com/pk/drozas_pk.asc" target="_blank">http://www.davidrozas.com/pk/drozas_pk.asc</a><br>
><br>
><br><br><br><br>
--<br>
P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br><br>
<<a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a>>Updates:<br><a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:37:37 -0800<br>
From: Karl Robillard <<a href="mailto:krobillard@san.rr.com" target="_blank">krobillard@san.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] commons / market / currency questions by Mike<br>
Riddell<br>
To: P2P Foundation mailing list <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1425530.LaPhKqGAXq@localhost.localdomain" target="_blank">1425530.LaPhKqGAXq@localhost.localdomain</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br><br>
Michel,<br><br><br>
Here are some condensed responses to Mike Riddell's questions from this URL:<br><br>
<a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/beyond-greenpirate-cooperation-towards-a-european-grand-alliance-of-the-commons/2014/01/24#comment-628220" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/beyond-greenpirate-cooperation-towards-a-european-grand-alliance-of-the-commons/2014/01/24#comment-628220</a><br>
<br><br>
1. Specific protocols. Not so relevant as a general question since<br>
participants in the commons will be the ones choosing these, but with regards<br>
to currency see #4.<br><br>
2. Redefining commons. The benefit of a commons over a market is it's<br>
transparency and open access.<br><br>
3. Networks effects. These are very real and not Utopian.<br><br>
4. Social value cannot be reduced to a number (credits). It is relational and<br>
intrinsic (related to #3).<br><br><br>
-Karl<br><br><br>
P.S. Had to send this email twice.<br><br><br><br>
------------------------------<br><br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:44:42 -0800<br>
From: Karl Robillard <<a href="mailto:krobillard@san.rr.com" target="_blank">krobillard@san.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: [P2P-F] Email Archives<br>
To: p2p-foundation <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1693969.xtljrfQHuP@localhost.localdomain" target="_blank">1693969.xtljrfQHuP@localhost.localdomain</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br><br>
I just tried to access the email archives and noticed that they are now<br>
private and that the URL to them on the wiki is wrong (possibly because they<br>
became private). When did that happen?<br><br><br>
-Karl<br><br><br><br><br>
------------------------------<br><br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 13:09:37 -0500<br>
From: Fabio Barone <<a href="mailto:holon.earth@gmail.com" target="_blank">holon.earth@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] commons / market / currency questions by Mike<br>
Riddell<br>
To: P2P Foundation mailing list <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAOL8i_kS73E0a%2B_2ui1gu1amg%2BP3GHWNBzNRjutL9xooT3qGvA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAOL8i_kS73E0a+_2ui1gu1amg+P3GHWNBzNRjutL9xooT3qGvA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>
Please allow me my contributions.<br>
I am particularly interested in point 4 though,<br>
in the context of a local project I am participating.<br>
No need to say, but I do: just my personal opinions :)<br><br>
1.) A commons is a commons - a shared entity - air, water, an "allmend"<br>
(shared grazing), biodiversity, etc.<br>
It's in the interactions of its users and their needs and accesses that its<br>
components arise...<br>
(in other words I mean it's probably hard to generalize)<br><br>
2.) Whatever organization its users decide to adopt could work...<br>
Local cultural issues are very important in this context<br><br>
3.) The "market" is like saying "God" - it's an intangible entity really...<br>
It depends what you mean by it. A healthy community oriented market may be<br>
fine,<br>
a heavily manipulated and controlled market maybe less so...<br><br>
4.) I am thinking along these same lines lately. Local institutions (like<br>
NGOs, social help groups,<br>
alternative educational orgs, art collectives etc.) with community<br>
projects should get free credit<br>
to be able to spend in circulation on local service providers, and with<br>
sufficient diversity of participants<br>
in the system, many needs could be served by members, making the units<br>
circulate.<br><br>
But why would outside speculators want to buy stock from these groups?<br>
If you specifically mention speculators, they are interested in returns<br>
only,<br>
not in the community interest. Stocks often also imply voting power in the<br>
community,<br>
so this to me doesn't seem very appealing. Also, where would these people<br>
get their returns from? It would only work if they would be interested in<br>
returns<br>
generated inside the community, which may be non-monetary...so there could<br>
be little incentive for them.<br><br>
Things could look differently though if there would be a purposely<br>
sustainability/equitable stock market,<br>
where investors wouldn't be interested in monetary returns foremost, but in<br>
supporting great communities,<br>
and would be open on the nature of the returns. Still this could be done in<br>
bitcoins though (or something similar).<br><br>
A very ad-hoc response admittedly so bear with me :)<br><br><br>
2014-01-27 Karl Robillard <<a href="mailto:krobillard@san.rr.com" target="_blank">krobillard@san.rr.com</a>><br><br>
> Michel,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Here are some condensed responses to Mike Riddell's questions from this<br>
> URL:<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/beyond-greenpirate-cooperation-towards-a-european-grand-alliance-of-the-commons/2014/01/24#comment-628220" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/beyond-greenpirate-cooperation-towards-a-european-grand-alliance-of-the-commons/2014/01/24#comment-628220</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> 1. Specific protocols. Not so relevant as a general question since<br>
> participants in the commons will be the ones choosing these, but with<br>
> regards<br>
> to currency see #4.<br>
><br>
> 2. Redefining commons. The benefit of a commons over a market is it's<br>
> transparency and open access.<br>
><br>
> 3. Networks effects. These are very real and not Utopian.<br>
><br>
> 4. Social value cannot be reduced to a number (credits). It is relational<br>
> and<br>
> intrinsic (related to #3).<br>
><br>
><br>
> -Karl<br>
><br>
><br>
> P.S. Had to send this email twice.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> P2P Foundation - Mailing list<br>
> <a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
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End of P2P-Foundation Digest, Vol 37, Issue 48<br>
**********************************************<br></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..</b></div><div><br>
</div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
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