Dear Apostolis,<div><br></div><div>I don't believe you can simpliy wish politics away, and look for technocratic solutions based on mathematics, and I also think it has been shown that the Power Law operates in every distiributed network.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In my opinion, what is needed are 'counter-measures' that balance power law tendencies with their opposite, which is exactly what the greek democracy did, but also the free cities in medieval Europe. But all of these were also a direct result of politics. The greek democracy was based on the revolt of the people against debt slavery, and because the sailors-proletarians were armed; the medieval councils were based on the power of the guilds and the city militias which could act against the nobility ...</div>
<div><br></div><div>It's less mathematics that will help us, than 'group threshold' anthropology and other in-group vs out group findings of evolutionary psychology, which show more precisely when democratic ingroup processes start to break down.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The Norwegian Terje Bongard, in his book Biological Man, has recently published a whole book outlining such an approach.</div><div><br></div><div>Peer production has shown us that the global scaling of small group dynamics is now possible; can we apply this to politics as well? Some ideal combination of permanent individual expression of choices (such as the liquid feedback system of proxy voting), small-group deliberation, could augment any system of representation that is still needed where down-scaling is not possible ..</div>
<div><br></div><div>All of this is however, dependent on popular mobilization, as much as on real-life experimentation of real peer production communities that have successfully defended their autonomy, or in other words: messy politics</div>
<div><br></div><div>Michel<br clear="all"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>XXX</div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:14:07 +0200</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">From: Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <</span><a href="mailto:xekoukou@gmail.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">xekoukou@gmail.com</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">></span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Ancient Athens didn't have politicians. Is</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">� � � � there a lesson for us?</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">To: P2P Foundation mailing list <</span><a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">></span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Message-ID:</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">� � � � <</span><a href="mailto:CAOX4E5F%2B744hzv4fX8pfC9Ly4G84tJA5n29F4Nmv8CFqOjeQpg@mail.gmail.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">CAOX4E5F+744hzv4fX8pfC9Ly4G84tJA5n29F4Nmv8CFqOjeQpg@mail.gmail.com</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">></span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Letting people literally become the state is the best way to protect</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Democracy. But how efficient is this?</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The good thing is that today we have the internet and thus it is much</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">easier to have a decentralized state by the people, thus solutions like</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">these could for some things scale without costing a lot.</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I wonder if there has been any mathematical research for the amount of</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">decentralization that is required so that a hegemonic class doesnt emerge.</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I'd prefer it to be mathematical because I know a lot of opinions on this</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">matter which are always interrelated with one's political</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">agenda.(reformist,anarchist,</span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.666666984558105px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">revolutionary marxist,capitalist)</span></div>
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<br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br>
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