<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> ----- Forwarded Message -----<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Prof. Richard Werner <werner@profitfund.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> gang8@yahoogroups.com <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 24 September 2012, 9:54<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: Re: [gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago Plan Revisited"<br> </font> </div> <wbr><div id="yiv1574858335">
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Dear Gunnar,</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">So that’s clearly too much power in the
hands of too few unelected people, and hence a non-starter.</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Just see what the excessively powerful ECB
has been doing. I have a chapter in my 2003 book Princes of the Yen (M. E. Sharpe)
on the ECB, and in this I predicted that the ECB would create massive boom-bust
cycles and banking crises. It has lost no time proving me right, in Ireland,
Portugal, Spain and Greece. All in order to further its goals, revealed by
Trichet in his Aachen
speech: the creation of a United States of Europe. As a co-author of the
Maastricht Treaty he knew (I was told by another co-author) that a ‘crisis’ was
needed to get the missing piece of their final aim, fiscal unification. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Richard</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">
gang8@yahoogroups.com [mailto: gang8@yahoogroups.com ] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Gunnar Tómasson<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> 24 September 2012 00:14<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> gang8@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> gang8@yahoogroups.com ;
Asgeir.Torfason@handels.gu.se<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Re: [gang8] Must
money be debt? - "The Chicago
Plan Revisited"</span></font><span lang="EN-US"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Conclusion.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The problems of the euro and the U.S. dollar have been building up for
years and decades, respectively.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results, the time has come for a fundamental re-thinking of world
monetary arrangements.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">First to go is the idea that stable world monetary arrangements can be
based on a national world reserve currency - the temptation is too great, and
the lobbying pressures too hard to resist, to engage in what the U.S. and the
Euro-zone have done, namely, to flood the rest of the world with money created
out of thin air.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Next comes the question of what to do?</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">1. Restructure world monetary arrangements through the
transformation of the IMF's Special Drawing Rights into the modern equivalent
of Keynes's BANCOR.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">2. Make the BANCOR a "reserve settlement asset"
between national central banks.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">3. Provide national central banks with BANCOR overdraft
facilities at a reorganized IMF.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">4. Make access to such overdraft facilities subject to
macro-economic and financial criteria analogous to what the EU is attempting to
put together to make the euro viable.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">But that would mean the IMF cast in the role of a World Central Bank!</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Exactly.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Gunnar</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
<br>
Sep 23, 2012 03:58:12 PM, gang8@yahoogroups.com
wrote:</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Another problem occurs to me: </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> Under the Chicago Plan, would Allocator-banks still be deposit
taking institutions?</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If they are, there is nothing to stop banks from doing what they do now
- make a loan denominated in the currency of gvt-issued money, but which is not
'backed' by reserves, accept the resulting deposit, and put that on the
liabiltiy side of their balance sheet. Then make the next loan. No one can tell
the difference between state created and bank-created money. In fact, my guess
is that bank created money would soon crowd out state-created money.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">There is no way the state could restrict the money growth rate. </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">As Minsky said, the problem is not to create money, but to get it
accepted. If bank liabilities are accepted as money, 'reserve backing' becomes
irrelevant to money creation.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Alternatively, Allocators (banks-new-style) may NOT accept
deposits. But the public must bank somewhere. Presumably the state then accepts
deposits which it passes on to banks. If it does this automatically, the same
result ensues. If it 'hoards' deposits (claims on its balance sheet), where are
the matching assets? Those are the claims on banks. At some point banks want
those claims redeemed. The state is now subject to a bank run - by banks!</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dirk</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On 23-09-12, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Geoffrey Gardiner </span></b> wrote:
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: black; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">I am amazed that the
level of understanding of bank bookkeeping is so low, or should one say
non-existent?</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: black; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: black; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">I have printed out the
paper in the hope that by careful study I can see some sense in it, but my
first impression of the early paras is that it is total nonsense. How can a
bank make a loan if there is 100 per cent cover for deposits? Every bank loan
creates a new deposit. Was Fisher stuck in the far distant past when a bank
might have lent out gold coins? To get rid of them, of course, for as
Aristotle said, they have no offspring. Same with Bank of England notes. </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: black; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">When will accounting
principles become a compulsory requisite for the study of economics? I
despair.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: black; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;">Geoff</span></font></div>
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<div style="background: whitesmoke;" class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> D.J.Bezemer
</span></font></div>
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<div style="background: whitesmoke;" class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">
Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:40 PM</span></font></div>
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<div style="background: whitesmoke;" class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">To:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> gang8@yahoogroups.com </span></font></div>
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<div style="background: whitesmoke;" class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></font></b><font color="black" size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> Re:
[gang8] Must money be debt? - "The Chicago
Plan Revisited"</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">Gunnar, and all, </span></font></div>
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<div><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">You should read the thoughtful paper
"The Chicago Plan Revisited" by Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof.
It is an IMF working paper ( WP/12/202) and can be found at </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font><font color="#388222" face="Calibri"><span style="color: rgb(56, 130, 34); font-family: Calibri;">www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf</span></font><font color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">The paper is a model
analysis of the proposal to let the government issue debt-free money, as
proposed by several scholars (among them Fischer) in the 1930s. Richard and
others made a similar proposal recently (100% reserve money). </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">The model can be
ignored for the moment, the first 10 or 15 pages are a very careful
discussion of the issues and the technicalities of money issuing without debt
growth.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">I am still reading
this and reserving judgment until I am done. Given the level of the
discussion and of institutional realism, and given the fact that it comes
form the IMF, this paper merits our attention and discussion.</span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">Either the IMF is
coming round to creditary principles, or Benes and Kumhof (who already did,
apparently) will soon leave. </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">Dirk </span></font></div>
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<div class="yiv1574858335MsoNormal"><font color="black" size="3" face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt;">On 15-09-12, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Gunnar Tómasson </span></b> wrote: </span></font></div>
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<div><font color="black" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;">Stephen A. Zarlenga, author of The Lost Science of
Money and founder of the American Monetary Institute, sought an answer to
this question "by examining the results evident in historical
examples” in the first 23 chapters of his book. On the basis of that examination,
Zarlenga challenges the view of A. Mitchell Innes that "money must be
debt".<br>
<br>
Must money be debt?<br>
<br>
In the context of modern entrepreneurial market economies, money derives
from and encapsulates a creditary relationship between entrepreneurs and
owners/suppliers of factor inputs. This relationship arises at Alpha and
concludes at Omega of the production process, with intrinsically worthless
IOUs/money received as Factor Income at Alpha being redeemed in Final
Output at Omega.<br>
<br>
In other words, money is a token of debt by entrepreneurs to suppliers of
factor inputs - of credit extended in the form of factor inputs for later
redemption in final output. </span></font></div>
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