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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>----- Forwarded Message -----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Arno Mong Daastoel <amd@daastol.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> gang8@yahoogroups.com <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 14 June 2012, 13:25<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [gang8] Social credit versus productive money<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
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<div>Hugh,<BR><BR>I am not sure that the West need any scheme of social credit, be it the versions of Steve Keen's, Kitson or or Douglas.<BR>Given the uncompetitive state, it seems to me that the West need to upgrade its productive capacity, not distribute credit for whatever purpose (such as more import). Therefore, I would rather favour this productive tradition of Hamilton, List etc.<BR><BR>Arno <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On 14.06.2012 11:59, Arno Mong Daastoel wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">><FONT size=2 face=Arial>dropping the effective tax rates<BR><BR><BR>I guess the easiest way of doing it would be to up the minimum level of income liable for tax payment.<BR><BR>It would also have the additional effects of,<BR><BR>1) distributing resources to the most needy<BR>2) making work for low wages more attractive<BR>3) increase competitiveness of the nation's industry<BR>4) </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>increase employment<BR></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>5) </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>increase tax revenues (counter-acting the public costs of tax relief)</FONT><BR><BR>Arno<BR><BR>PS<BR>In Norway, to my knowledge, the only party who has gone for this solution is the right wing populist party (the Progress Party)<BR>Left is not always right, or was it the way around?<BR>;-)<BR><BR>On 12.06.2012 20:37, Hugh Whinfrey wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>There is less administrative overhead and it is generally more fair</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>if all citizens are granted the same slump sum amount. I have made</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>this proposal before in a forum where I believe Mr. Keen is familiar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>with the posts. I would hope that the lack of ability to claim credit for </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>being the </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>originator of the above idea is not what is making him stick </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>to his </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>guns on what is clearly an unfair and uncecessarily complex </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>proposal. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The IRS/Inland Revenue can simply administer the leftover lump sum as </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>a </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>whopping tax </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>credit. That would cause a whole lot of folks to suddenly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>decide to engage in productive economic activity where there currently</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>is no incentive to do so. "Anti-austerity", i.e. dropping the effective tax rates</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>to allow a new private economy of small businesses to take root is actually </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>the only way out. The sooner </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>we get started, the sooner it will get fixed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hugh</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=amd@daastol.com href="mailto:amd@daastol.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:amd@daastol.com">Arno Mong Daastoel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=gang8@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:gang8@yahoogroups.com">gang8@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [gang8] Re: Debt - Dick Eastman versus Steve Keen</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Geoffrey,<BR><BR>Here is a message for you.<BR>(Somehow it did not reach me, found it on the list's yahoo website)<BR><BR>Arno<BR><BR>From: John Hermann <A class=yiv1151621326moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:hermann@chariot.net.au%3E" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:hermann@chariot.net.au%3E"><hermann@chariot.net.au></A> <BR>Date: Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:35 pm <BR>Subject: Re: [gang8] Re: Debt - Dick Eastman versus Steve Keen <BR><BR>To receive the money, one would need to fill in a debt-relief application form. And as part of the contract between you and the issuer of this public grant you would undertake (a) to list all of the debts satisfying specified criteria, eg home mortgages, credit card debt, etc., and (b) to pay off those debts up to a maximum allowed limit. It would be effectively enforced by the tax office (the department of internal revenue), to whom all of the debt payments must be reported -- by both
you and those receiving the payments. I am well aware of some of the problems that this operation would entail, but nobody said it had to be easy. <BR><BR>John Hermann<BR><BR><BR>On 5/06/2012 9:06 PM, G W Gardiner wrote: <BR><BR>Wonder how one enforces it?<BR><BR>Geoff<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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