Can you see a way out of the crisis?<div><br><div>From what i understand, getting out of the crisis means either the physical destruction of capital or its devaluation through bankrupcies.<br><br>For this reason, I see no way out of this if something radical is not done. (revolution, war, )<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/12/31 Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'm afraid you are right and this is also being echoed by samir amin, michael hudson, and others,<br><br>Michel<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Tere Vad�n <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tere.vaden@uta.fi" target="_blank">tere.vaden@uta.fi</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I have a pet theory which is too simplistic and reductionist to be true<br>
or even intelligible to many, but this is it: since economic growth is<br>
not possible anymore (because of peak oil) the rich can get richer only<br>
if the poor get poorer, hence authoritarianism, hence austerity, etc;<br>
some of the old pre-20th century conditions are returning. The system is<br>
not surviving, it is mutating. If the collapse of the soviet union meant<br>
the collapse of socialism as ideology, the end of growth means the end<br>
of liberal right wing ideologies. (Fortunately, I'm not completely alone<br>
in believing this lunacy, Richard Heinberg seems to have spoken about it<br>
in the recent ASPO conference: <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8573" target="_blank">http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8573</a>).<br>
<div><br>
On 11/27/11 7:58 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:<br>
> see below via thomas greco, a commentary on harvey<br>
><br>
> has anyone seen any good explanation of the current austerity/fleecing<br>
> strategies ... it seems to me that a systematic and radical impoverishment<br>
> � is also a problem for the survival of the system as a whole ..<br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
><br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
</div><div>> From: *Thomas Greco* <<a href="mailto:thg@mindspring.com" target="_blank">thg@mindspring.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:thg@mindspring.com" target="_blank">thg@mindspring.com</a>>><br>
> Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:47 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: Fw: David Harvey on marx and capital<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Dear Rajni,<br>
</div>> Thanks for the link to the review of David Harvey's book, /The Enigma of<br>
> Capital, and the crises of capitalism/. No, I've not seen the book, but<br>
<div>> if the review is a faithful description, the book seems well worth reading.<br>
><br>
> I'm not inclined to frame my analyses and prescriptions in terms of<br>
> competing ideologies because that leads to immediate resistance by the<br>
> true believers on one side or another. Rather, we need to encourage<br>
> people to think outside of their comfortable boxes by pointing out<br>
> implicit assumptions and evident dysfunctions, and suggesting structural<br>
> as well as policy changes that show promise of providing better outcomes.<br>
><br>
> Of course, what constitutes a better outcome will always be a point of<br>
> disagreement based on the fundamental values, attitudes, and beliefs<br>
> that different segments of society hold (e.g., the 1% vs the 99% that<br>
> the Occupy movement has highlighted). Besides that, our desires and<br>
> expectations must ultimately adjust to the reality of our planetary<br>
> limits to physical growth.<br>
><br>
> Based on the review, the points that I may agree or disagree with Harvey<br>
> about are inserted in red in the review below.<br>
><br>
</div>> *The Enigma of Capital, and the crises of capitalism, By David Harvey____*<br>
<div>><br>
> Review by Andrew Gamble<br>
><br>
> Friday, 30 April 2010<br>
><br>
</div>> *Andrew Mellon, the US Treasury Secretary during the Great Crash of 1929<br>
<div>> and one of America's richest men, observed that in a crisis assets<br>
> return to their rightful owners. Nothing much has changed. As the<br>
> present crisis has mutated from a banking crisis to a fiscal crisis and<br>
> a sovereign debt crisis, bonuses continue to be paid, while the people<br>
</div>> of Greece and Iceland suffer huge cuts in jobs and services.____*<br>
<div>><br>
> As the head of Citibank helpfully pointed out, "Countries cannot<br>
> disappear. You always know where to find them." Once the bubbles are<br>
> burst, expectations about asset values are dashed, optimism gives way to<br>
</div>> despair, and wealth is ruthlessly redistributed. *Capitalism survives by<br>
<div>> purging itself of debt and loading the costs of adjustment on the weak<br>
</div>> and the poor.____*<br>
<div>><br>
> [I agree, but something needs to be said about HOW it purges itself of<br>
> debt. We�ve seen very clearly in this latest cycle how the capitalists<br>
> have come away whole by pushing the debt off onto the public sector by<br>
> means of government bailouts. That has cause severe fiscal (budgetary)<br>
> problems for governments, which now are pressured to cut spending. That<br>
> is where the weak and the poor (including the �middle class�) get<br>
> fleeced and sacrificed because the cuts are typically made in social<br>
</div>> spending and programs that promote the common good.]____<br>
<div><div></div><div>><br>
> For David Harvey, this is the latest of the great structural crises<br>
> which have punctuated the development of capitalism and which signify<br>
> that major limits have been reached to further growth. Crises on this<br>
> view are inherent in capitalism itself, and the means by which it renews<br>
> itself. Only a periodic clear-out of debt and unproductive activities<br>
> creates the basis for a further leap forward.<br>
><br>
> Harvey is less interested in the detail of how the 2007-8 crisis<br>
> unfolded than in understanding it as a manifestation of how capitalism<br>
> works. Over the last two decades, he has become a leading exponent of<br>
> classical Marxist political economy, his work known for its exceptional<br>
> clarity and for integrating spatial categories into the theory of<br>
> capital accumulation.<br>
><br>
> Capitalism in the last 200 years has proved itself by far the most<br>
> dynamic and productive economic system known to history, but the wealth<br>
> comes at a price, both for human beings and increasingly for the natural<br>
> environment.<br>
><br>
> Periodically, capitalism over-expands and overshoots, encountering<br>
> limits it cannot immediately transcend. This is a system which must keep<br>
> expanding by at least 3 per cent a year. What drives it is the hope of<br>
> profit, and this impulse comes to shape all social relations as well as<br>
> nature. During booms, capital accumulates very fast, but the amount of<br>
> surplus generated becomes harder and harder to absorb. The investments<br>
> that have been made in the boom fix capital in all sorts of ways, in<br>
> buildings, cities, regions and countries, as well as in labour forces<br>
> and ways of organising production.<br>
><br>
> After a time many of these past investments no longer yield a high<br>
> return and sometimes no return at all. This is what precipitates the<br>
> crisis. It may take the form of a profits squeeze, caused by militant<br>
> labour wresting gains from capital, or by factors depressing the rate of<br>
> profit, or by too little demand. Harvey argues that the present crisis<br>
> is particularly hard to resolve because it comes after a long period in<br>
> which real incomes in the US have stagnated, while the wealth of the<br>
> property-owning elite has soared.<br>
><br>
> The gap between what labour was earning and what it would spend was<br>
> covered by credit. The average debt of per household, including mortgage<br>
> repayments, was $40,000 in 1980. By 2007 it was $130,000. Getting this<br>
> debt down and restarting the economy is a huge task.<br>
><br>
> [I too have been preaching that the limits to growth have been reached,<br>
> and yes, however one might choose to characterize an economic system<br>
> (capitalist, socialist, or otherwise), there must be a periodic<br>
> �clear[ing]-out of debt and unproductive activities,� for the system to<br>
> maintain its vitality, but not necessarily to make way for further<br>
</div></div>> growth.____<br>
<div>><br>
> I�m wondering if Harvey�s book adequately explains the phenomenon of<br>
> �expansion and overshoot,� and whether or not that would also occur<br>
> under his conception of a alternative non-Capitalist system. I�m also<br>
> wondering about the basis for his statement that, �This is a system<br>
> which must keep expanding by at least 3 per cent a year.�I�ve seen<br>
> estimates that run closer to 6%. My own belief is that the proximate<br>
> driver of continual economic growth is the compounding of interest that<br>
> is a fundamental feature of our global monetary system, and that the<br>
> surplus that is created by the economy goes largely into capital<br>
> concentration and profit-seeking reinvestment, rather than to increased<br>
> and more equitable consumption. Thus, we see starvation and want amidst<br>
</div>> plenty.] ____<br>
<div>><br>
> Harvey is pessimistic that growth can be restarted without the<br>
> infliction of quite unimaginable hardships on the many of the world's<br>
</div>> poorest people. *Capitalism survives by socialising losses and<br>
<div>> distributing gains to private hands. Harvey devotes a large part of his<br>
> argument to show how this is done through the close ties of the state<br>
</div>> and finance. He calls it the state-finance nexus.____*<br>
<div>><br>
> [Yes, this is an increasingly obvious point. I�m glad to see that Harvey<br>
</div>> is highlighting the �*state-finance nexus.�*I trace that back to the<br>
<div>> founding of the Bank of England in 1694, which established the pattern<br>
> of central banking and government-banking collusion that has since<br>
> spread around the world and culminated in a rather monolithic regime.<br>
</div>> But there are cracks beginning to form.]____<br>
<div><div></div><div>><br>
> This is not a conspiracy: both sides of the relationship need one<br>
> another and support one another. There are frictions and conflicts, but<br>
> in the end they work together because this is the only system anyone<br>
> knows or thinks can be made to work. Michael Bloomberg, as Mayor of New<br>
> York, commissioned a report which declared that excessive regulation in<br>
> the US was threatening the future of the financial sector in New York.<br>
><br>
> The financial crash of 2008 destroyed the credibility of the financial<br>
> growth model put in place after the last great capitalist crisis in the<br>
> 1970s. It has also, as Harvey notes, put a question-mark over the<br>
> continuance of US hegemony, because of the shift in the balance of the<br>
> global economy towards the rising powers of India and China.<br>
><br>
> He thinks that the accumulated rigidities over the last cycle have<br>
> become so great that only a very fundamental restructuring can restore<br>
> the basis for renewed economic growth. But the pressure for an early<br>
> return to business as usual are very great, threatening an early return<br>
> of credit and debt as the only way to fuel the economy, and the eruption<br>
> of another crisis in a few years.<br>
><br>
> Harvey argues that each major capitalist crisis has been worse than the<br>
> last one, and more difficult to surmount. He accepts that capitalism,<br>
> with all its resilience and inventiveness, is quite capable of<br>
> overcoming this crisis too; but he is sceptical, and believes that this<br>
> is the moment that a revived anti-capitalist movement can seize the<br>
> opportunity to put forward a realistic alternative to capitalism as a<br>
> way of organising the economy.<br>
><br>
> [Yes, it is evident that each successive cycle is more extreme than the<br>
> last. The financial system based on interest-bearing debt is shaking<br>
</div></div>> itself apart. ____<br>
<div>><br>
> It seems odd that he attributes �resilience and inventiveness�<br>
</div>> to**capitalism. These are human qualities that might thrive in a variety<br>
> of circumstances. The question is how, specifically, to support them. ]____<br>
<div>><br>
> This is perhaps where the argument is least convincing. The<br>
> anti-capitalist left is fragmented and not particularly numerous.<br>
> Radical political responses during previous capitalist crises have often<br>
> favoured the right. The rise of China and India, both of which have<br>
> continued to grow through the recession, suggests that the fundamental<br>
> shift in the balance of the global economy is only just beginning, and<br>
> if it continues is likely to provide huge potential for growth and<br>
> absorption of surplus, provided certain political conditions are met.<br>
><br>
> This will not be easy but is certainly possible. Marx thought that no<br>
> social order ever perishes before all the productive forces for which<br>
> there is room in it have developed. On the evidence Harvey himself<br>
> provides, capitalism still has a long way to go before that is the case,<br>
> and no gravediggers are in sight.<br>
><br>
> [What are the physical limits to the application of those �productive<br>
> forces?� It is evident that the masses of India and China cannot<br>
> possibly achieve the levels of consumption and way of living that have<br>
> prevailed in the West. The emphasis must shift from capital accumulation<br>
> and increasing consumption to more equitable distribution and better<br>
</div>> quality of life for all.]____<br>
<div>><br>
> But this book is a welcome addition to the literature on the crisis. It<br>
> provides a lucid and penetrating account of how the power of capital<br>
> shapes our world, and sets out the case for a new radicalism and a<br>
> vision of alternatives. What we need, he argues, is not just a new world<br>
> but a new communism, following the failure of the old - although he does<br>
> accept ruefully that using "communist" as a political label may not<br>
> bring instant success in the United States.<br>
><br>
> [I guess we will need to read the book to see what Harvey has to propose<br>
</div>> in making the �case for a new radicalism and a vision of alternatives.�]____<br>
><br>
> /Andrew Gamble is Professor of Politics at the University of Cambridge<br>
> and author of 'The Spectre at the Feast' (Palgrave Macmillan)/<br>
<div>><br>
> [Annotated comments by Thomas H. Greco, Jr.]<br>
><br>
> Thomas H. Greco, Jr.<br>
</div>> <a href="mailto:thg@mindspring.com" target="_blank">thg@mindspring.com</a> �<mailto:<a href="mailto:thg@mindspring.com" target="_blank">thg@mindspring.com</a>><br>
> Mobile phone (USA):520-820-0575 �<tel:520-820-0575><br>
<div><div></div><div>> Beyond Money:<a href="http://beyondmoney.net" target="_blank">http://beyondmoney.net</a><br>
> Tom's News and Views:<a href="http://tomazgreco.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://tomazgreco.wordpress.com</a><br>
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> My latest book,"The End of Money and the Future of Civilization" �can be ordered from Chelsea Green Publishing, Amazon.com, or your local bookshop.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 11/22/2011 11:37 PM, rajni bakshi wrote:<br>
>> Dear Tom,<br>
>> I stumbled upon this because of the stuff at the beginning -- that<br>
>> Jairus Banaji has been given<br>
>> an important book prize in UK. Jairus is a friend and a very respected<br>
>> marxist scholar.<br>
>><br>
>> The speech by last year's winner seems important.....he talks about<br>
>> �capital and money.<br>
>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU</a><br>
>> <<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU</a>><br>
>> And a link to an article by David Harvey<br>
>> <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-enigma-of-capital-and-the-crises-of-capitalism-by-david-harvey-1958010.html" target="_blank">http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-enigma-of-capital-and-the-crises-of-capitalism-by-david-harvey-1958010.html</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Rajni<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><br></pre><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">
Sincerely yours, </pre><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"> Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis</pre></span><br>
</div></div>