<span class="author" style="display: block; color: rgb(136, 136, 136); margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span class="author" style="display: block; margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://www.e-flux.com/journal/view/232">http://www.e-flux.com/journal/view/232</a></span><span class="author" style="display: block; margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Hans Ulrich Obrist</font></span><h1 style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 40px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 1; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">In Conversation with Julian Assange, Part I</font></h1></span><span class="author" style="display: block; color: rgb(136, 136, 136); margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">JA: "Censorship is not only a helpful economic signal; it is always</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">an opportunity, because it reveals a fear of reform. And if an</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">organization is expressing a fear of reform, it is also expressing the</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">fact that it can be reformed."</span></span><span class="author" style="display: block; color: rgb(136, 136, 136); margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">"</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; ">In places where speech is free, and where</span></span>censorship does not exist or is not obvious, the society is so sewn<br>
up � so depoliticized, so fiscalized in its basic power relationships<br>� that it doesn�t matter what you say. And it doesn�t matter what<br>information is published. It�s not going to change who owns what<br>or who controls what.�"<span class="author" style="display: block; color: rgb(136, 136, 136); margin-top: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-weight: bold; font-size: large; ">Forwarded conversation</span></span><div class="gmail_quote">
Subject: <b class="gmail_sendername"><nettime> free speech and financialisation</b><br>------------------------<br><br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">nettime's avid reader</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nettime@kein.org">nettime@kein.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:21 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:nettime-l@kein.org">nettime-l@kein.org</a><br></font><br></span><br><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.e-flux.com/journal/view/232" target="_blank">http://www.e-flux.com/journal/<u></u>view/232</a><br>
<br>
<....><br>
<br>
JA: Censorship is not only a helpful economic signal; it is always<br>
an opportunity, because it reveals a fear of reform. And if an<br>
organization is expressing a fear of reform, it is also expressing the<br>
fact that it can be reformed. So, when you see the Chinese government<br>
engaging in all sorts of economic work to suppress information passing<br>
in and out of China on the internet, the Chinese government is also<br>
expressing a belief that it can be reformed by information flows,<br>
which is hopeful but easily understandable because China is still a<br>
political society. It is not yet a fiscalized society in the way that<br>
the United States is for example. The basic power relationships of<br>
the United States and other Western countries are described by formal<br>
fiscal relationships, for example one organization has a contract<br>
with another organization, or it has a bank account, or is engaged in<br>
a hedge. Those relationships cannot be changed by moderate political<br>
shifts. The shift needs to be large enough to turn contracts into<br>
paper, or change money flows.<br>
<br>
HUO: And that�s why you mentioned when we last spoke that you�re<br>
optimistic about China?<br>
<br>
JA: Correct, and optimistic about any organization, or any country,<br>
that engages in censorship. We see now that the US State Department is<br>
trying to censor us. We can also look at it in the following way. The<br>
birds and the bees, and other things that can�t actually change human<br>
power relationships, are free. They�re left unmolested by human beings<br>
because they don�t matter. In places where speech is free, and where<br>
censorship does not exist or is not obvious, the society is so sewn<br>
up � so depoliticized, so fiscalized in its basic power relationships<br>
� that it doesn�t matter what you say. And it doesn�t matter what<br>
information is published. It�s not going to change who owns what<br>
or who controls what. And the power structure of a society is by<br>
definition its control structure. So in the United States, because of<br>
the extraordinary fiscalization of relationships in that country, it<br>
matters little who wins office. You�re not going to suddenly empty a<br>
powerful individual�s bank account. Their money will stay there. Their<br>
stockholdings are going to stay there, bar a revolution strong enough<br>
to void contracts.<br>
<br>
<....><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">John Young</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jya@pipeline.com">jya@pipeline.com</a>></span><br>Date: Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 6:02 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:nettime-l@kein.org">nettime-l@kein.org</a><br></font><br></span><br><br>
"Free speech" has come to mean to protect your wallet for<br>
that enterpise has been "financialized" by media, academia<br>
and NGOs -- and whistleblowers, not to overlook<br>
documentary makers and once honorable alt media.<br>
<br>
Assange is a courageous and creative person, don't smirk<br>
at the journo-formulaic cheap shot, but from the beginning<br>
he has put fund-raising first on the WL agenda, exaggerated<br>
WL uniqueness, overstated (with coy understatement)<br>
its influence, and misrepresents WL's inept security.<br>
My early critique of those fatal flaws is still valid.<br>
<br>
Although Julian now has a PR team of ghostwriters, bloggers<br>
and quasi-intellects (authorized spokespeople WL brays)<br>
providing material to advance the crypto-free-speech<br>
brand he set out to establish with the carny-corny-copyist<br>
Wiki + Leaks.<br>
<br>
The e-flux pieces are epitomes of that lucre-driven genre<br>
of unctuous fancy branding. The cliche of artist interlocutors<br>
stroking one another with sappy artworks and puff-ball questions<br>
for masterful ghost-scripted pontificating by Julian is pure NYC<br>
world capitals of capitalism stagecrafting of how commerce<br>
undergirds the high-branded, prize-winning! culture for<br>
consumption by blockbuster addicts.<br>
<br>
Zizekism fits the bill.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined"></b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:navva@earthlink.net">navva@earthlink.net</a>></span><br>Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:05 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:nettime-l@kein.org">nettime-l@kein.org</a><br></font><br></span><br>
As one of those cliched artist interlocutors you do not bother to name, i would like to observe, john, that your own linguistically painful post seems to exist merely to make you feel better about something or other.<br>
<br>
Are you more upset by Julian Assange, by<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
documentary makers and once honorable alt media,<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
or perhaps zizek,<br>
<br>
or
or
or<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
stagecrafting<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
or
yours,<br>
martha rosler
<...><div class="HOEnZb"></div><br></div><br>