great to have the considered opinion of a labour activist,<br><br>finding common ground between 'traditional' labour and the new 'knowledge working class' is crucial for pushing the movement forward,<br><br>
Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:58 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:orsan@tie-netherlands.nl">orsan@tie-netherlands.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
hi michel and martin,<br>
OWS clearly creates pressure on radical left parties and unions that were striving to 'represent' working classes. It became obvious that they can represent themselves directly in a much efficient way.<br>
We observe solidarity is rising between the old, new and newest social movements. Old-trd. working class movement, new-NGOsied sector from the new left era, and now with the rise of the p2p infrastructures a newest movements such as Zeitgesit, Anonymous, WikiLeaks, and of course DRY, Take the Square, and OWS.<br>
The latest has surely creted a strong pressure on the core trd. workers and thier unions, for change. The socalled union renewal is coming from below now, as well as from middle by critics in unions.<br>
I think OWS will represent a new model for the new labour self-organisation, and this will pull/push the union movement forward. as happened a hunderd years ago, towarsd transnational unionism.<br>
Clearly peer production, peer governance and peer everything is replaceing older forms, relatively faster fashion overdetermines this process. Now I think we are clearly heading towards a kind of revolution and the destiny of tradiotional workers and unions will be as well as the other classes you were mentioning by the results of such process.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Citeren Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>>:<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
this is probably true martin, that there is continuation with alt.global,<br>
yet, there are also differences I think, it's a substantial remix,<br>
<br>
the way I see it (and ht to jose ramos for point to ariel salleh's work),<br>
there are 3 working classes nowadays,<br>
<br>
the meta-industrial class of the south (salleh)<br>
<br>
the traditional industrial working class (now also mostly in the emerging<br>
south)<br>
<br>
the knowledge workers, and I think ows reflects them �...<br>
<br>
we need social movements of all three, but because of the strategic place<br>
of knowledge workers in the current mode of production, they are at a<br>
crucial nexus of power and influence; they are also the probable vehicles,<br>
I think, the speed up the adoption of peer production by the<br>
meta-industrials, allowing them leapfrogging capabilities ...<br>
<br>
I'm not so clear about what it all means for the traditional working<br>
classes,<br>
<br>
perhaps Orsan has a view?<br>
<br>
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:19 AM, mp <<a href="mailto:mp@aktivix.org" target="_blank">mp@aktivix.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
when put like this, one really and clearly sees the continuum with<br>
alter-globalisation events, from counter-summit camps through No Border<br>
camps, and even before that: the free party scene, the rave scene,<br>
Reclaim the Streets etc. (all the way back into the age of camping<br>
hundreds of years ago): claiming a space, reorganising it and building a<br>
new world.<br>
<br>
the events and organisational approaches of OWS are very similar and<br>
obviously come in extension of those experiences of globalisation<br>
protests - and in many cases, there are old familiar faces at play.<br>
<br>
the only thing that has changed, as far as i can tell, is that the<br>
problems revealed and analysed previously have now found resonance with<br>
more people in the rich part of the world, because suddenly suffering<br>
has come home to roost (when it was predominantly children of colour in<br>
exotic countries, people were happy to buy a Save the Children badge to<br>
patch their conscience).<br>
<br>
m<br>
<br>
On 23/11/11 18:17, Michel Bauwens wrote:<br>
> in response to another letter:<br>
><br>
> I think ows produces a political commons and does that pretty much in a<br>
> standard peer production way,<br>
><br>
> they have a commons, zuccoti park,<br>
><br>
> they have the general assembly and different substructures, but which do<br>
> not command and control the movement,<br>
><br>
> for example, the finance working group, which looks for money,<br>
><br>
> they have sophisticated provisioning systems<br>
><br>
> the last three are equivalent to the for-benefit associations in open<br>
> source,<br>
><br>
> finally, they have an enterpreneurial coalition, such as the ows street<br>
> vendor association,<br>
><br>
> I have documented this through<br>
> <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:OccupyWallStreet" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/<u></u>Category:OccupyWallStreet</a>, in detail,<br>
><br>
> so,<br>
><br>
> ows produces 'politics', and it has governance,<br>
><br>
> it has no clear property, but the commons aspect, i.e. it can be used and<br>
> remixed, would cover that<br>
><br>
> this is quite illuminating,<br>
<a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Occupy_Wall_Street_API" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/<u></u>Occupy_Wall_Street_API</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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