<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I was amused to read that MMT is regarded as a cult. One economist claimed that Transfinancial Economics, or TFE was like a cult, and ofcourse some conspiracy theorist on the internet claimed that it was a plot of the super rich to get rid of taxation...and take over the world<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>!</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">RS. <A href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Transfinancial_Economics">http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Transfinancial_Economics</A></SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "ideasinc@ee.net" <ideasinc@ee.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 27 September 2011, 3:00<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [P2P-F] Regarding MMT being a cult<BR></FONT><BR>A very reasonable observation. One of the standards of MMT is that its <BR>principles are based upon what actually happens in the way of outcomes. It <BR>might be a very radical concept to have people actually hold
economists <BR>responsible for the results of their recommendations, as contrasted with a <BR>gaggle of econo wonks babbling about tweaking and adjustments, and then <BR>nothing happens or something significant fails to happen. Placing labor as <BR>important participant in the economic commons, rather than labor being <BR>treated as solely a commodity, would be a vast improvement in itself.<BR><BR>Part of the functional finance side of the process basically would <BR>eliminate welfare as it has been used as a threat to labor through a <BR>guaranteed minimum wage jobs program which is engaged in a counter <BR>cyclical fashion. Treating various social support services as <BR>infrastructure, such as medical coverage and higher education would <BR>establish new domains of employment to boost coverage of the existing <BR>systems. This would be beyond physical infrastructure projects which
would <BR>also be at a skilled level, could end up providing mass transit systems <BR>where none exist now. Setting standards in this way would at least elevate <BR>expectations.<BR><BR>And... the truth is that every possible fiscal and economic policy would <BR>have the capacity of being subverted or turned to anti-democratic ends. <BR>Still if the citizenry is ignorant and passive lots of nefarious stuff can <BR>and would happen. No process can deliver a benign outcome without alert <BR>and engaged voters. So the choice seems to be keep the current system and <BR>expect change to magically happen, or work to elevate the economic <BR>literacy of the population and remove the parasites. The deficit terrorism <BR>which has had a recent resurgence in the wake of the big whoops, is <BR>guaranteed to make things much, much worse and it cannot be be perpetuated <BR>indefinitely. or
people will simply explode into a long bloody rage, often <BR>minus any viable alternatives other than crime. Does your cynicism extend <BR>to nihilism? What about a body of theory and policy which has had a much <BR>higher degree of success that has been provided otherwise<BR><BR>Faith based economics and willing ignorance hasn't served us very well. <BR>And ye ole trickle down bait and switch scheming and scamming hasn't <BR>produced much other than chaos. Yes, the usual courtier crooks, frauds, <BR>and thieves will still be there. Is it even imaginable that the <BR>appropriate regulatory processes can be re-established?<BR><BR>MMT is based upon what is essentially a authentic scientific discourse <BR>which would a major shift all by iteslf. What would a commons centered <BR>economics look like for the unwilling and the hardened skeptics?<BR><BR>I'm listening, if you have something
better in mind. My guess is that it <BR>is possible to develop a context in which the state is not inherently <BR>hostile.<BR><BR>Tadit<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:04:45 -0400, Sandwichman <<A href="mailto:lumpoflabor@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:lumpoflabor@gmail.com">lumpoflabor@gmail.com</A>> <BR>wrote:<BR><BR>> I don't know about "cult" but everything I've read by MMT advocates <BR>> assumes<BR>> either that governments serve the public interest or that, if they don't<BR>> they *should* serve the public interest. Yeah? Well, I agree they <BR>> "should"<BR>> but what is going to make them? That's what I find distressing. A <BR>> political<BR>> disconnect. Marx at least posited a revolutionary subject, the <BR>> proletariat.<BR>> The big question for me is not would MMT work but who is going to <BR>> implement<BR>> it?<BR>><BR>> I continue to
operate on the premise that the State is inherently <BR>> hostile or<BR>> at best is passive and will only reluctantly pursue a progressive <BR>> program,<BR>> however it may be couched technically, if compelled to by a mobilized <BR>> civil<BR>> society.<BR>><BR>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 2:05 PM, <<A href="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net" ymailto="mailto:ideasinc@ee.net">ideasinc@ee.net</A>> wrote:<BR>><BR>>> From Stephanie Kelton at the UMKC economics department<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 16:15:13 -0400<BR>>><BR>>> Have these folks look at our Twitter following. Journalists, <BR>>> progressive<BR>>> groups, reporters (Reuters and such, not crackpots), MPs (two of them,<BR>>> actually, one a Labor MP from Wales and one from Netherlands (socialist<BR>>> party). Randy and I are now recognized as "contributors" at
Truthdig.<BR>>> Anything we write for them (as our New New Deal piece of 2 weeks ago) <BR>>> will<BR>>> be picked up by scores of other progressive sites (Counterpunch ran our<BR>>> latest after it appeared in Truthdig), as well as less progressive <BR>>> places<BR>>> like Global Economic Intersection (which also ran it). Roughly half of<BR>>> MMT blogs are run by traders -- not economists (Pragmatic Capitalism,<BR>>> Center of the Universe, Naked Capitalism, CreditWritedowns (and Ed <BR>>> Harris<BR>>> was an Austrian before he discovered, and then wrestled with, MMT). We<BR>>> are becoming the mainstream in economics, and history will not be kind <BR>>> to<BR>>> the holdouts. We have been right about every major economic event (both<BR>>> forecasting it and then explaining why the policy response would fail to<BR>>> bring
about the desired results). Krugman didn't say that QE wouldn't<BR>>> work. We did. Dean Baker is moving toward OUR position. His latest<BR>>> piece on SocSec is a clear indication. In it, he says that there is no<BR>>> reason that SocSec can't be funded out of general revenue FOREVER. That<BR>>> IS MMT. Affordability is not the issue. Why do you think he said that?<BR>>> We know Dean. We like him as a person. But he is NOT a macro <BR>>> economist,<BR>>> and he does not understand the monetary system/government finance. Same<BR>>> goes for Krugman. Not a macro person. Ellen Brown has gotten much<BR>>> better. Why? Because behind the scenes, she is sending e-mails like<BR>>> crazy, seeking input from Randy, Marshall and other MMTers!!! It's <BR>>> nuts.<BR>>> They love these
guys, and they are getting their material from us.<BR>>><BR>>> snip<BR>>><BR>>> Stephanie<BR>>><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list<BR>>> <A href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net/" target=_blank>http://www.p2pfoundation.net</A><BR>>> <A href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target=_blank>https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</A><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>P2P Foundation - Mailing list<BR><A href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net/" target=_blank>http://www.p2pfoundation.net</A><BR><A href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target=_blank>https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>