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<div class="gmail_quote"><br>via the nextnet mailing list, reacting on previous commentary at NextNet:<br><br><br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> Sep 09 08:38AM +0700
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<br>
Though I'm quite critique of Ken Wilber (google my name and his for my<br>
critiques), I still like the concept of the three eyes ...<br>
<br>
Paraphrased of what I remember, the eye of matter is how the mind looks at<br>
material phenomena, and deals with the area of science; the eye of mind,<br>
looks at the human production of minds (and requires the rules of mind,<br>
logic, philosophy, novels, theatre), i.e. the humanities and the social<br>
sciences, hermeneutics, in short the 'sciences' of meaning.<br>
<br>
The eye of spirit looks at the production of 'events' when we are in<br>
meditation or 'witnessing mode', i.e. when we leave the area of language to<br>
directly experience the numimous ...<br>
<br>
Obviously, the eye of mind is the great mediator, since we always come back<br>
to our mind and the medation of language, and equally obviously, mind and<br>
spirit can be examined with the eye of matter as well,<br>
<br>
but just as it is reductionist to explain say human love exclusively through<br>
chemistry, it would just be as reductionist to explain away mystical and<br>
gnostic numinous experiences through the brain mapping of its chemistries<br>
...<br>
<br>
The direct experiencing of what is beyond language deserves its own respect.<br>
I think that Richard's notion of scientism could easily encompass those two<br>
dangers of reductionism.<br>
<br>
John Heron's spiritual inquiry, or Jorge Ferrer's approach allow for<br>
spiritual explorations that are completely compatible with reason and<br>
science.<br>
<br>
Modern human beings need the skills to navigate easily to and from the<br>
different realms, respecting the rules of each .. when experiencing the<br>
numinous, poetry, mystical language, direct visual expression of what has<br>
been seen, is the most appropriate; when discerning it's meaning, we use<br>
hermeneutics, when examining its material basis, the sciences of matter<br>
(neurobiology etc..)<br>
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> Sep 09 07:26PM +0700
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<br>
Another thing I would like to see about this, and which is quite different<br>
from the approach taken by Richard, especially at the end of the article.<br>
<br>
There, Richard seems to assume a total opposition between rational and<br>
magical thinking, but is that really so? Is there a rational way to produce<br>
art and poetry, or isn't art and poetry produced by different<br>
epistemological functionings.<br>
<br>
In other words, reason is just one epistemological mode, not an exclusive<br>
one. If we take an integral approach, then it is perfectly possible to<br>
explore and use both magical and mythological modes.<br>
<br>
Sometimes, a-rational modes can produce very useful knowledge.<br>
<br>
Just to illustrate, two studies I remember, but cannot reference, but I can<br>
assure you I did see them.<br>
<br>
One was a study comparing the medical effectiveness of traditionally trained<br>
acupuncturists with western trained acupuruntists, showing the traditional<br>
ones to be more effective ... this is so despite acupuncture not really<br>
making any scientific sense within the western paradigm<br>
<br>
the other was a longitudinal study in the netherlands, about the<br>
effectiveness of various forms of therapy. TO the great despair of the<br>
researchers, reincarnation therapy came out on top ... That doesn't make<br>
it true, but makes it worth engaging with it. In general, spiritual<br>
techniques such as concentration, meditation, yoga, tantra, orthodox prayer<br>
techniques, tibetan visualisation techniques, etc. .. will disclose human<br>
potentials that are simply not offered by secular science.<br>
<br>
And this is just a general argument, it is really useful to engage with<br>
other people's perspectives, ontologies and epistemologies, and to<br>
understand them from within, without prejudging them. There are thousands of<br>
years of intensely engaging with the 'inner world', which leave proven<br>
biophysical effects on the bodymind, and it would be really a shame to<br>
ignore them.<br>
<br>
<br>
Is it really the animistic/shamanistic tribes that are destroying the<br>
biosphere, the scientists, embedded as they are in the capitalist and<br>
industrial power system? The answer shows that it would not be wise to<br>
reject a 'magical thinking' which sees life and awareness everywhere, and<br>
therefore respects it much more deeply than a science which sees only dead<br>
objects.<br>
<br>
An integral, rather than oppositional attitude, would be more productive in<br>
allowing us to critically engage with other perspectives, which are also<br>
valid ways of being and seeing the world.<br>
<br>
Especially at the end of the article, where you assume that people that use<br>
magical thinking are purposely dishonest, is really in my opinion a travesty<br>
of the truth. It is simply their vision and lifeworld.<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
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