hi sam, and others,<br><br>perhaps a really stupid question, but it's a reaction I encountered when presenting OSE:<br><br>- but all these machines are already a long time in the public domain ...<br><br>what about such an argument?<br>
<br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Samuel Rose <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="h5">On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I'm really interested in a 'constructive critique' of OSE ...<br>
><br>
> here is some of my own:<br>
><br>
> - first of all, Nicholas refers to the authoritarian tendencies ... as I see<br>
> it, this was certainly a problem in the beginning, when people expected OSE<br>
> to work as as a voluntary open source program, which I think it isn't. It's<br>
> a almost fully thought out vision from marcin, and the project is a vehicle<br>
> to bring that to fruition. It's like working for Avatar for Cameron, you<br>
> fully expect to be ordered around. What was not clear perhaps was this<br>
> underlying social contract, hence the early problem.� However, it seems<br>
> quite clear that this issue has been resolved, i.e. new volunteers are clear<br>
> about this expectation, and, that there is also funding, making this type of<br>
> relationship clearer as well. Nevertheless, it seems that Marcin has been<br>
> successfull in attracting a new layer of volunteers and that they are happy<br>
> with the level of participation they can bring, though it is true that the<br>
> ones I know are 'remote participants' .. For me, the Marcin approach is<br>
> legitimate, there needs to be place in the world for 'genial individuals'<br>
> who have a capacity to mobilize people and realize a vision. The key is that<br>
> you are aware of the implicit or explicit social contract.<br>
><br>
> - I think the project has many merits, but it is also a limited one. It is a<br>
> vision of an autonomous village, but doesn't answer more global social<br>
> concerns like for example the commodity ecology of Mark Whitaker does. But<br>
> of course, it shouldn't. I.e. there must be room for systemic approaches<br>
> that touch communities as a whole, and core initiatives like Marcin, which<br>
> are meant to seed the broader environment with strong local subcommunities<br>
> with alternative logics, and of course, the latter's availability will<br>
> influence the former.<br>
><br>
> Now, this is my provisional critique, but I don't really see the<br>
> totalitarian aspects.<br>
><br>
> They're work is interoperable and open standard, so as I see it, others can<br>
> work on it, create variations, etc ...<br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>A practical critique:<br>
<br>
The designs need some work to be safe and usable machinery. I would<br>
feel safer using manual Amish equipment for building and farming over<br>
some of these designs. I've seen many of my farming relatives lose<br>
fingers, legs, and lives. This would happen much faster by way of<br>
distributed (internet mediated) collaboration, involving people who<br>
have genuine knowledge of design and engineering of the type of<br>
equipment proposed. Creating Blender files and posting them with<br>
descriptions to a wiki doesn't cut it for useful collaboration around<br>
design and engineering. There are working examples for how to<br>
collaborate in distributed ways around design in projects like RepRap,<br>
Arduino. Spend less time and energy on publicity, and more time on<br>
building a robust collaborative design infrastructure on the internet.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Karl Robillard <<a href="mailto:krobillard@san.rr.com">krobillard@san.rr.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Monday, July 18, 2011 09:00:40 pm Nicholas Roberts wrote:<br>
>> > personally I think that while the OSE project is idealistic and<br>
>> > technically<br>
>> > interesting, its also totalitarian, naive and a dangerous distraction<br>
>> > from<br>
>> > existing social systems, craft movements and appropriate technology<br>
>> ><br>
>> > its a kind of utopian new age totalitarianism, with a digital<br>
>> > fabrication<br>
>> > and software development festish... if you cant model it, design it, it<br>
>> > doesnt exist<br>
>><br>
>> Everything in our world has a structural design. �Our bodies, our<br>
>> machines,<br>
>> our systems of production, our forms of government, and our environment.<br>
>> �Open<br>
>> source is about the absolute freedom to communicate and modify designs.<br>
>> This<br>
>> empowers people to understand, repair, replicate and customize the<br>
>> structures<br>
>> around them. �What's your beef against understanding the world?<br>
>><br>
>> We live in the information age. �Software isn't a fetish, it's just the<br>
>> way we<br>
>> manipulate information. �Our new information tools are certainly<br>
>> revolutionary, but I don't see anything utopian about them.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > real-life just doesn't work like that, you might be able to insulate<br>
>> > yourself from that if you've got a stream of volunteers, a large number<br>
>> > of<br>
>> > donors etc, but really it only works for those principals at the core<br>
>><br>
>> Open source works for whoever wants to take advantage of it. �What you<br>
>> said<br>
>> could be said about any human endeavor.<br>
>><br>
>> �"Super-stardom only works for artists who can attract enough fans!"<br>
>> �"Free markets only work for capitalists who can sell to enough<br>
>> customers!"<br>
>> �"Representative democracy only works for voters who can get their<br>
>> candidates<br>
>> elected!" (Heh... and not even then)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > the problem isn't a design problem, it's a social and political one<br>
>><br>
>> I agree, where the social problem happens to be that the designs for all<br>
>> the<br>
>> products we use and the institutions we must engage with are not open and<br>
>> easily modified. �Ha! �I take that back, the problem is very much a design<br>
>> problem - a problem of social design. �To advocate that people ought not<br>
>> spend<br>
>> time learning about the structure of things and communicating this<br>
>> knowledge<br>
>> to others is totalitarian.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -Karl<br>
>><br>
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