certainly in the U.S. the whole system seems structurally 'stacked' against new political forces emerging outside of the 2 party system ...<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Samuel Rose <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Dear Sam,<br>
><br>
> issues of power seem part of every social movement, but perhaps they are<br>
> heigthened in party-political structures, as you seem to suggest,<br>
><br>
> I hope your own experiment will show a way forward that marries political<br>
> efficicay and a way to avoid the� issues you are highlighting,<br>
><br>
> however, I don't think I agree that these dynamics are what caused the fall<br>
> of the greens in michigan, since they appear in every political party, and<br>
> many of them are successfull even with such dynamics,<br>
><br>
> so my hunch is the problem was another one,<br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>I think the dynamics, coupled with the lack of literacies of effective<br>
and trust based participation seemed to be the biggest problem. In<br>
other areas of the world and other cultures, the dynamics may emerge,<br>
but people are able to sort through them and move on. Here it seems<br>
with new political parties that there is a pathology that attracts a<br>
bad element, who co-opt and hijack. Many of the new party efforts seem<br>
to never recover from this. It may just be a part of our culture here.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Samuel Rose <<a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Michel Bauwens<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > thank you Sam,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > my own task, but I have not made tremendous progress, was to be to map<br>
>> > out<br>
>> > commons -oriented policy proposals that are emerging,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > the Pirate Party also has an interesting approach,� based on 8<br>
>> > principles<br>
>> > which when combined, given an indication of how a principled policy<br>
>> > would<br>
>> > look like, see the falkvinge blog for that<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> Back in 2000 election, we had the Green Party emerge very strongly<br>
>> here in Michigan. Then, in my opinion, as often happens here in the US<br>
>> with efforts that start out as more egalitarian and progressive, the<br>
>> initiative of the Green Party was quickly overwhelmed by people who<br>
>> saw it as a platform to push their own quest for celebrity, or<br>
>> personal agendas, or quests for power and authority over others. The<br>
>> Green Party of Michigan then quickly fell apart around 2001. I think<br>
>> that the internet actually helped to fuel *both* the rapid growth<br>
>> *and* the rapid deterioration here. The "commons" of people's time and<br>
>> energy and goodwill, and trust, were quickly sapped, co-opted and<br>
>> wasted by people who wanted to put their agendas, and their insistence<br>
>> that people "do it my way" above the greater goals of most of the<br>
>> people involved. Internet email lists gave them an around the clock<br>
>> platform to pump out propaganda, dominate discussions, and even harass<br>
>> people.<br>
>><br>
>> It is for this reason in part that I am compelled to seek a non-party<br>
>> route for progressives here in Michigan. Sure, we can work with<br>
>> existing parties. However, investing energies into putting the party<br>
>> and platform above people and their actual problems tends to<br>
>> consistently attract a really destructive element. So, I think a key<br>
>> here is trust first. Each participant has a way to work out trust with<br>
>> the others. if there is any party platform, let it be a *trust*-based<br>
>> platform. Technology really is not the full answer here, either.<br>
>> Neither is full answer community currency, nor open source hardware or<br>
>> software (although these are in my opinion components towards an<br>
>> effective shift in a positive direction that can help the majority of<br>
>> people struggling here). The problem is within the minds of people. We<br>
>> here in Michigan need to ***learn how to finally build real<br>
>> relationships of trust*** over and above anything else. �Maybe<br>
>> technologies can help, but human learning trumps technology here.<br>
>> (this email will be re-worked to be part of the blog post). Trust,<br>
>> real empathy and compassion for other people, and a positive insight<br>
>> that there is a path towards resolving the existing problems is the<br>
>> most effective focus. So, I am really committed to the idea of<br>
>> rejecting creating a new political party in favor of creating a<br>
>> permanent effort for peer to peer political advocacy, learning,<br>
>> re-ignition of local connections of trust and ethical wealth creation,<br>
>> and this effort can collaborate and lend power to existing political<br>
>> parties that are aligned with our goals.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Samuel Rose <<a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I will do this. I have to get these blogging requests into my<br>
>> >> schedule, starting this Sat likely. I won't be able to move much on<br>
>> >> any of it until then. My good friend writes those articles for Lansing<br>
>> >> Online News, so for sure can reference that, and will think about how<br>
>> >> this maps to a p2p political advocacy perspective. I am trying to<br>
>> >> build a relationship with the guy at the end of that video (Lansing<br>
>> >> Mayor Virg Bernero) around the Michigan Transformation concepts<br>
>> >> <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Michigan:_The_Transformation_Manifesto" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/Michigan:_The_Transformation_Manifesto</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> In my opinion, these are signs of a collapsing 20th century economy,<br>
>> >> with Michigan, Iceland, Greece, Ireland, Spain, and other places at<br>
>> >> the forefront of it. We could frankly use the help of people worldwide<br>
>> >> interested in p2p perspectives to think about how to move forward here<br>
>> >> in Michigan. I think there is a real opportunity, and I'll break out<br>
>> >> some of the research over the summer that we are doing with The Five<br>
>> >> Commons Report in Future Forward Institute to address things that are<br>
>> >> specific to this area, which hopefully will help people get a better<br>
>> >> idea. Also will think about an effective way to "map and model" the<br>
>> >> situation here.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Michel Bauwens<br>
>> >> <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >> > hi sam,<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > you haven't yet featured the internationally underreported michigan<br>
>> >> > situation yet,<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > this would be a good starting point,<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > <a href="http://lansingonlinenews.com/news/video-virg-bernero-on-rachel-maddow-warning-about-emergency-financial-managers/" target="_blank">http://lansingonlinenews.com/news/video-virg-bernero-on-rachel-maddow-warning-about-emergency-financial-managers/</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > --<br>
>> >> > P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� -<br>
>> >> > <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss:<br>
>> >> > <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>;<br>
>> >> > <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> --<br>
>> >> --<br>
>> >> Sam Rose<br>
>> >> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation<br>
>> >> Tel:<a href="tel:%2B1%28517%29%20639-1552" value="+15176391552">+1(517) 639-1552</a><br>
>> >> Cel: <a href="tel:%2B1-%28517%29-974-6451" value="+15179746451">+1-(517)-974-6451</a><br>
>> >> skype: samuelrose<br>
>> >> email: <a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://futureforwardinstitute.com" target="_blank">http://futureforwardinstitute.com</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://forwardfound.org" target="_blank">http://forwardfound.org</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://hollymeadcapital.com" target="_blank">http://hollymeadcapital.com</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://socialmediaclassroom.com" target="_blank">http://socialmediaclassroom.com</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human<br>
>> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� -<br>
>> > <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss:<br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>;<br>
>> > <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> --<br>
>> Sam Rose<br>
>> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation<br>
>> Tel:<a href="tel:%2B1%28517%29%20639-1552" value="+15176391552">+1(517) 639-1552</a><br>
>> Cel: <a href="tel:%2B1-%28517%29-974-6451" value="+15179746451">+1-(517)-974-6451</a><br>
>> skype: samuelrose<br>
>> email: <a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://futureforwardinstitute.com" target="_blank">http://futureforwardinstitute.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://forwardfound.org" target="_blank">http://forwardfound.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://hollymeadcapital.com" target="_blank">http://hollymeadcapital.com</a><br>
>> <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://socialmediaclassroom.com" target="_blank">http://socialmediaclassroom.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human<br>
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
><br>
> Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
><br>
> Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>;<br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">--<br>
Sam Rose<br>
Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation<br>
Tel:<a href="tel:%2B1%28517%29%20639-1552" value="+15176391552">+1(517) 639-1552</a><br>
Cel: <a href="tel:%2B1-%28517%29-974-6451" value="+15179746451">+1-(517)-974-6451</a><br>
skype: samuelrose<br>
email: <a href="mailto:samuel.rose@gmail.com">samuel.rose@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://futureforwardinstitute.com" target="_blank">http://futureforwardinstitute.com</a><br>
<a href="http://forwardfound.org" target="_blank">http://forwardfound.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hollymeadcapital.com" target="_blank">http://hollymeadcapital.com</a><br>
<a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
<a href="http://socialmediaclassroom.com" target="_blank">http://socialmediaclassroom.com</a><br>
<br>
"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human<br>
ambition." - Carl Sagan<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
<br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br><br><br><br><br>