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<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Hi
Michel,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Thanks
very much for the below and I must confess to not having read the comments on
Zeynep's original post. I found the comments, particularly those of "Parliament
of Things" more or less directly parallel to my own
thoughts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>I've
never had a lot of interest in network analysis or network theory--thinking
about it. I realize that the reason for this is that to my mind network analysis
is a way of avoiding class or (in my case) community analysis where the issues
are not simply about analysis but also about social change ("networks" are to
"communities" (or P2P?) as "social and economic status" (SES) is to "class"--I
go into this in a bit more depth in my little book "What is Community
Informatics..." <A
href="http://www.docstoc.com/MyDocuments/">http://www.docstoc.com/MyDocuments/</A> ("Networks"
in this approach, at least as presented in "network analysis" are statistical
constructs a la SES and bear little relationship to the lived world of real
networks, P2P associations, communities or whatever...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>The
issue is not, I think, some "iron law" (or statistical regularity) but rather
what it is that one wants to do and what the best way is of accomplishing
it. If one wants the opportunity for democratic participation then there
are potential means for achieving this and examples where it has been done. If
one believes that P2P relationships are the necessary underpinnings for
democratic participation then one can work through ways of realizing these. Of
course after the fact it is possible to design analyses that show why one or
another approach is more or less useful in achieving the goal (or not), but the
pragmatics of moving forward toward the objective are, as several of your
commentators pointed to, rather more in the hands of the participants than they
are constrained by any kind of social behaviourism.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>(But
maybe that's why I stopped being an academic sociologist 20 years ago or
so... :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Michel Bauwens
[mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:00
AM<SPAN class=788053112-01032011><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Arial> . </FONT></SPAN><BR><B>To:</B> P2P Foundation mailing
list<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pedro Gioya; Michael Gurstein; Dougald Hine; Paul B.
Hartzog<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [P2P-F] FW: Blogpost: Applying the ICT Lessons
of Revolt to the Institutional Challenges of Reconstruction: They overthrew
Hosni Mubarek, Now Can They Overthrow Robert Michels?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi
Pedro,<BR><BR>I follow Zeynep closely and we've covered this particular entry
in our blog as well,<BR><BR>these are if you will, the two sides of the same
coin, and do not necesseraly contradict each other,<BR><BR>Michael points out
the real changes that took place through the use of these media, and their
further potential, while Zeynep points to the dangers that do not just
come from outside, but from within the peer to peer dynamic itself<BR><BR>from
the blog,<BR><BR><A
href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/preferential-attachment-in-p2p-networks-is-that-really-the-issue/2011/02/21">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/preferential-attachment-in-p2p-networks-is-that-really-the-issue/2011/02/21</A><BR><BR>but
especially this:<BR><BR><A
href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/debating-the-iron-law-of-bureaucracy-and-the-power-law-knowing-networks-as-an-alternative-to-scale-free-networks/2011/02/18">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/debating-the-iron-law-of-bureaucracy-and-the-power-law-knowing-networks-as-an-alternative-to-scale-free-networks/2011/02/18</A><BR><BR>Paul
Hartzog also had a comment on this,<BR><BR>Michel<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Pedro Gioya <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:pg@institutodeliderazgo.com">pg@institutodeliderazgo.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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class=gmail_quote>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Look at this post on the same issue but with
different perspective (Sure you know, but anyway....)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://technosociology.org/?p=366"
target=_blank>http://technosociology.org/?p=366</A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Pedro</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=michelsub2004@gmail.com href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Michel Bauwens</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=gurstein@gmail.com
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target=_blank>Michael Gurstein</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org
href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org"
target=_blank>p2p-foundation</A> ; <A title=dougald@schoolofeverything.com
href="mailto:dougald@schoolofeverything.com" target=_blank>Dougald
Hine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 28, 2011 6:52
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [P2P-F] FW: Blogpost:
Applying the ICT Lessons of Revolt to the Institutional Challenges of
Reconstruction: They overthrew Hosni Mubarek, Now Can They Overthrow
Robert Michels?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>This is really brilliant Michael and I warmly recommend it
to our listmembers,<BR><BR>Michel<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Michael Gurstein
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"
target=_blank>gurstein@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Michel,<BR><BR>I think this is one that you will find
interesting...<BR><BR>M<BR><BR>---------------------------------------------<BR><A
href="http://wp.me/pJQl5-5Z"
target=_blank>http://wp.me/pJQl5-5Z</A><BR><BR>"In this, I think that
the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia have access to<BR>skills and
resources which were unavailable to earlier movements that
is-the<BR>Internet, social networking, mobile telephony and perhaps most
important,<BR>the experience and knowledge of how to use these in
support of collective<BR>social ends."<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>P2P Foundation: <A href="http://p2pfoundation.net"
target=_blank>http://p2pfoundation.net</A> - <A
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target=_blank>http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</A>; Discuss: <A
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<P></P>
<HR>
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