Dear Orsan,<br><br>the key question for me here is the following: can we find mechanisms of peer property that do not recommodify our practices, but leave the p2p practices intact?<br><br>i.e. a simple profit sharing scheme by facebook/youtube etc.. would essentially recommidify the social exchange, as people would start behaving/producing as profit maximisers themselves? <br>
<br>so are there mechanisms which can at the same time keep the value within those that produce it, while preserving the social advances of free collaborative labour?<br><br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:13 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:orsan@tie-netherlands.nl">orsan@tie-netherlands.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Your thought Richard evokes some others in my mind. Like orgainising facebook users and programmers at the same time, as well as youtube, twitter, google workers and users.<br>
Since users are peer producers, they are immaterial free labour for these compaines. In principle can claim the product of their labour back, ownership of facebook, youtube, google and twitter.<br>
Does anyone know if there is already a union in these companies?<br>
and some people would join in for such an experiment?<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Richard Schulte <<a href="mailto:richard@flywheelcollective.com" target="_blank">richard@flywheelcollective.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Patrick,<br>
<br>
As a member of a unionized worker co-op who deals exclusively with<br>
software in the free & open source realm, I have not encountered many<br>
issues with the impact of unionization on projects we are involved in.<br>
<br>
If anything, unionization in the open source realm could be helpful.<br>
Say, if the workers of Sun Microsystems were unionized, could they not<br>
have resisted the buy-out by Oracle through a strike?<br>
<br>
You make a good �point though - that developers in the greater<br>
community could act as 'scabs' in these situations. �The thing is - as<br>
long as they aren't being paid by the company that the workers are<br>
striking against, then there is no issue, and they are not scabs. �If<br>
anything, they could be seen as acting in solidarity with the striking<br>
programmers by ensuring that their software is still stable once they<br>
get back on the clock. �Or they could assist them by forking the<br>
project and continuing development outside of the control of the<br>
company (like the document foundation did). The free and open source<br>
community is built around mutual aid, trust and solidarity (for the<br>
most part).<br>
<br>
The reason I make such a big point of union organization in the open<br>
source software and hardware communities is that when starting new<br>
ventures that are worker-owned, that these folks can build economies of<br>
scale around collective benefits, group purchasing, training & shared<br>
services. �Having a union that is greater than your own shop is<br>
important when filing grievances and having a wider reach of agency and<br>
community. �When these institutions are worker-owned, and part of an<br>
appropriate economic ecosystem, the balance of power tends to shift<br>
away from moneyed interest and towards federation. �This means that<br>
there will generally be less likelihood of strikes and work stoppage.<br>
<br>
Just a thought.<br>
<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
On 02/25/2011 12:39 PM, Patrick Anderson wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
The effectiveness of collective bargaining has always been threatened<br>
by independent peers who are willing to accept lower wages and endure<br>
poor working conditions.<br>
<br>
For traditional manufacturing jobs, these 'alternate' workers can<br>
usually be kept from accessing the Means of Production by forming a<br>
physical barrier around the worksite or through various threats that<br>
can be carried out because it is easy to monitor who is actually<br>
entering the establishment.<br>
<br>
Yet these valuable techniques of intimidation and coercion so vital to<br>
protecting Worker Rights are unlikely to be applicable in the realm of<br>
"immaterial production".<br>
<br>
When it comes to something like Free Software, how can we, the<br>
International Programmers of the World, unionize effectively to *stop*<br>
independent programmers from creating the solutions that consumers<br>
need?<br>
<br>
This is a catastrophic issue, as many of these independents are<br>
willing to work not just for a low Wage, but for Free! �They often fix<br>
bugs and add features without any pay at all!<br>
<br>
How can workers in the 'immaterial' sphere possibly "make a living"<br>
with such anarchy and disrespect for organized labor, and with no<br>
ability to stop that production?<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
<br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br><br><br><br><br>