<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Michel, Stephane, <div><br></div><div>I have looked at the English introduction pages, unfortunately my French is not good enough to understand something fairly technical and complex. </div><div><br></div><div>While I am happy to see that there is a universal dividend incorporated into this money system, I am not sure that it will work. As far as I can understand, there is monthly money creation by all members of the system, and with time the monetary mass will grow, actually the graphic for growth of monetary mass assuming a fixed number of members on this page</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.open-udc.org/en/money_rules">http://www.open-udc.org/en/money_rules</a></div><div><br></div><div>shows that there is a rather steep increase of the monetary mass, all serving the same number of members. This means that the currency will be inflationary by design. More money for the same amount of business means that products, or anything that is exchanged in this economy, will come to cost more and more as time passes. One could also say that each unit of money will be worth less and less as time passes. This is not a good basis for a monetary system. </div><div><br></div><div>It would be rather easy however, to engineer the system for price stability. All that would need to be done is for the money to be created with a date of expiry. Each unit on monetary value, once it has been created, would need to start losing some of its nominal value every month, until it expires (has no more value) at the end of a period to be determined. This would make sure that the monetary mass could be stable in the case of a fixed number of members. After the period of initialization, money created equals money lost to expiry. No inflation of prices would ensue, because the monetary mass stays constant. Such a mechanism would also mean that the monetary mass could grow in line with a growing number of members. The total monetary mass would thus depend on the number of participants, and prices in the system would tend to be stable. </div><div><br></div><div>Without such a mechanism, I am afraid the system would not be workable. Money, to be used for real commerce, should have reasonably stable value over time. Only by limiting the total monetary mass in accordance with the number of members, can this goal be reached. </div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div>Sepp</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div>
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</div>
<br><div><div>On Feb 8, 2011, at 7:05 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Many thanks Stephane,<br><br>I have created a overview page at <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Open-Universal_Digital_Currency_Project">http://p2pfoundation.net/Open-Universal_Digital_Currency_Project</a><br><br>Dear Sepp, could you have a look, present this project and eventually put it into context of other projects in this related space?<br>
<br>I think the innovative part here is that it is directly linked to the mechanism of the universal dividend, and this is why it's particularly worth supporting,<br><br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:45 PM, St�phane Laborde <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:laborde_stephane@yahoo.fr">laborde_stephane@yahoo.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
You can present Open-UDC with :<br>
<br>
General presentation : <a href="http://www.open-udc.org/en/start" target="_blank">http://www.open-udc.org/en/start</a><br>
<br>
And Money Rules : <a href="http://www.open-udc.org/en/money_rules" target="_blank">http://www.open-udc.org/en/money_rules</a><br>
<br>
You can add that Open-UDC go with a a progressive goal following
three steps :<br>
<br>
1) Implementation with centralised server<br>
2) Implementation with hierarchical organisation<br>
3) Implementation with P2P System<br>
<br>
Money rules are a money system named Open-UDC. The technical system
in charge of the money rules is independant of Open-UDC and named
Open-UDS.<br>
<pre cols="72">St�phane Laborde
9, rue Ganneron, 75018 PARIS
Tel. 09 54 87 03 18
Mobile : 06 64 42 25 99</pre>
<br>
Le 08/02/2011 06:36, Michel Bauwens a �crit :
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="h5">Cher Stephane,<br>
<br>
If you have any non-technical text on this, I'd like to announce
it on the p2p foundation blog,<br>
<br>
Un grand merci!<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Michel
Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail..com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">didn't know that one! will definitely
check out and add to <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money</a>,<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Michel</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:29 PM,
olivier auber <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:olivierauber2@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivierauber2@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Ok!<br>
<br>
J'oubliais, La Th�orie Relative de la Monnaie (TRM)
est la base du d�veloppement du <br>
<h1>Open-Universal Digital Currency project</h1>
<a href="http://www.open-udc.org/en/start" target="_blank">http://www.open-udc.org/en/start</a><br>
<br>
Et �a c'est en anglais, entre autres...
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/2/8 Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">thanks
a lot Olivier, if you hear from the english
translation at some point, thanks for letting
me know!
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 8,
2011 at 12:19 PM, olivier auber <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:olivierauber2@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivierauber2@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Bonjour
matinal Michel,<br>
<br>
Sur ce sujet, j'attire ton attention
sur un auteur fran�ais � l'origine
d'une tr�s int�ressante "th�orie
relative de la monnaie" qui permet de
calculer tr�s exactement diff�rentes
choses, notamment l'expansion de la
masse mon�taire conduisant � une
�conomie durable, ainsi que le montant
du Dividende Universel qui serait le
vecteur de cette expansion.<br>
<br>
Il s'appelle St�phane Laborde.<br>
<br>
Le livre est ici : <a href="http://www.creationmonetaire.info/2010/11/theorie-relative-de-la-monnaie-10.html" target="_blank">http://www.creationmonetaire.info/2010/11/theorie-relative-de-la-monnaie-10.html</a><br>
Le blog l� : <a href="http://www.creationmonetaire.info/" target="_blank">http://www.creationmonetaire.info/</a><br>
<br>
Malheureusement, tout cela n'existe
qu'en fran�ais pour le moment.<br>
Un traduction en anglais est en cours,
je crois.<br>
<br>
Amicalement<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/2/8
Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div>
<br>
Dear Sepp,<br>
<br>
because the discussion is
largely technical, this is all
I can do, but perhaps you can
add an extra comment?<br>
<br>
also, if you are in contact
with Marc, please give him a
chance to say something about
the evolution of the bibo
project since december 2009,<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div><p><a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=13869" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link to
An update on BIBO,
financial stability
standards, and the
debt-virus hypothesis" target="_blank"><br>
</a></p>
<img src="x-msg://159/" alt="photo of Michel
Bauwens" align="left">
<div>Michel Bauwens</div>
<div>16th February 2011</div>
<br><p>In December 2009, Sepp
Hasslberger <a>introduced
to us</a> Bibo, a proposed
standard for stable
currencies, that would
replace the current
inherently unstable banking
money system.</p><p>This article has become our
most comment rich article,
in particular through a
recurring debate between one
of the Bibo co-authors Marc,
and Ardeshir Mehta.</p><p>Ardeshir has written an
article that challenges one
of the main points of
monetary reformers, i.e.
that the current system
leads to the infinite
creation of debt through
compound interest.</p><p>You can find it <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/ardeshir/DebunkingTheDebt-VirusHypothesis.html" target="_blank">here</a>.</p><p>The context:</p><p><i>�Currently, most if not
all money is loaned into
existence by banks, and is
thus based on
interest-bearing debt.
There is no question that
neither interest nor
debt-based money are good
for society, and I have
written denouncing both
debt and interest
elsewhere. However, there
is a fairly common thesis,
based on the fact that
money is loaned into
existence as
interest-bearing debt,
that if new loans are not
continually being issued
in ever-increasing
amounts, enough money will
not be created to pay the
interest on existing
loans; and as a result, at
least some those loans
will be defaulted upon,
resulting in inevitable
foreclosures. �</i></p>
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</div>
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<br>
-- <br>
P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>
- <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>
Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>;
Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
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Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>;
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<br>
Commons Strategies Group, <a href="http://www.commonsstrategies.org/" target="_blank">http://www.commonsstrategies.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div><hr>
<hr noshade="" size="1"><p color="#000000" align="left">Aucun virus trouv�
dans ce message.<br>
Analyse effectu�e par AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.fr/" target="_blank">www.avg.fr</a><br>
Version: 10.0.1204 / Base de donn�es virale: 1435/3428 - Date:
07/02/2011</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
<br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>Commons Strategies Group, <a href="http://www.commonsstrategies.org/">http://www.commonsstrategies.org/</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>