Paul, and George, and friends,<br><br>just to mention a comparative tactic,<br><br>in naomi klein's shock doctrine, she shows how the neoliberal machine works that way, i.e. they prepare, through their think thanks, a consistent set of proposals; none of these proposals is politically viable at the time they propose them, but in times of crises, when noboby has a clear direction, they step in, and they rapidly achieve outside influence for their anti-social proposals when the ruling class is at a loss; I propose a similar strategy with social proposals for the majority of the population, inspired by the p2p/commons paradigm,<br>
<br>I'm not saying we can pull this off at the moment, but, we have to start working on it,<br><br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paulbhartzog@gmail.com">paulbhartzog@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Michel<br>
<br>
My paper that you logged here<br>
<a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/21st_Century_Governance_as_a_Complex_Adaptive_System" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net/21st_Century_Governance_as_a_Complex_Adaptive_System</a><br>
<br>
includes a section about rapid response rather than planning,<br>
but an unmentioned implication is that the responding system<br>
has to be ready to response, which does mean some level<br>
of intellect and analyis.<br>
<br>
Ready made smart mobs as it were.<br>
<br>
If I had to make a metaphor,<br>
it would be that flocks emerge instantly when a predator<br>
emerges from the forest.<br>
The birds just take off, just like that.<br>
Definitely some pre-programming involved.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
-p<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> thank you so much Paul and Sam, this article below gets a lot of attention<br>
> ...<br>
><br>
> my feeling is that some combination of distribution and political<br>
> efficiency, must be attempted, though I'm not sure what the 'vehicle' for<br>
> this might be, I'm guessing it will be (re-)invented ..<br>
><br>
> Tiberius has an idea, but not really developed, which I think is important<br>
> and promising, i.e. 'pre-programmed mass movements'<br>
><br>
> this involves thinking ahead of contingencies such as : what do we do when<br>
> the internet is shut down, what do we do when we are physically attacked ..<br>
><br>
> this is why I think that next to the quick time of spontaneous<br>
> mobilizations, the long time of small groups of thinkers-doers is a<br>
> necessity ..<br>
><br>
> this does not mean a centralized hierarchical organisation but rather a<br>
> credible (as the french would say):� "force de proposition"<br>
><br>
> when the greek crisis was on the agenda a few months back, my idea was that<br>
> we need a force of rapid intervention, that could have made the right<br>
> proposals at the right time (in this case, Ellen Woods of Web of Debt had<br>
> the most cogent, immediately applicable proposals)<br>
><br>
> My dream/intention is to be able to describe such a few teams ... (ellen did<br>
> not reply to my emails on this however <g>)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <<a href="mailto:paulbhartzog@gmail.com">paulbhartzog@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> David,<br>
>> I was just reading<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2011/02/04/gladwell-proves-too-much/" target="_blank">http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2011/02/04/gladwell-proves-too-much/</a><br>
>><br>
>> And saw this<br>
>><br>
>> Activism requires not just strong ties, but also strong, centralized,<br>
>> hierarchical organization. Not networks. You need a hierarchy �if<br>
>> you�re taking on a powerful and organized establishment��<br>
>><br>
>> which ties in with this post Sam Rose and I just published this morning:<br>
>><br>
>> Towards a Peer-to-Peer Strategy for Social Change<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/towards-a-peer-to-peer-strategy-for-social-change/2011/02/04" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/towards-a-peer-to-peer-strategy-for-social-change/2011/02/04</a><br>
>><br>
>> (see also Michel Bauwens')<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/social-media-and-social-revolutions-what-is-their-relationship/2011/02/02" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/social-media-and-social-revolutions-what-is-their-relationship/2011/02/02</a><br>
>><br>
>> Glad to see all the good conversation around this topic of late.<br>
>><br>
>> -p<br>
>><br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> The Forward Foundation<br>
>> <a href="http://www.ForwardFound.org" target="_blank">http://www.ForwardFound.org</a><br>
>> <a href="mailto:paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org">paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org</a><br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> <a href="http://www.PaulBHartzog.org" target="_blank">http://www.PaulBHartzog.org</a><br>
>> PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> <a href="http://www.panarchy.com" target="_blank">http://www.panarchy.com</a><br>
>> <a href="mailto:PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com">PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com</a><br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> University of Michigan<br>
>> <a href="mailto:PHartzog@umich.edu">PHartzog@umich.edu</a><br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.<br>
>> � � � � � � � �� --Muriel Rukeyser<br>
>><br>
>> Perceive differently, then you will act differently.<br>
>> � � � � � � � �� --Paul B. Hartzog<br>
>> --------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
><br>
> Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
><br>
> Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>;<br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">--------------------------------------------------------<br>
The Forward Foundation<br>
<a href="http://www.ForwardFound.org" target="_blank">http://www.ForwardFound.org</a><br>
<a href="mailto:paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org">paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
<a href="http://www.PaulBHartzog.org" target="_blank">http://www.PaulBHartzog.org</a><br>
PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org<br>
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
<a href="http://www.panarchy.com" target="_blank">http://www.panarchy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com">PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
University of Michigan<br>
<a href="mailto:PHartzog@umich.edu">PHartzog@umich.edu</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.<br>
� � � � � � � �� --Muriel Rukeyser<br>
<br>
Perceive differently, then you will act differently.<br>
� � � � � � � �� --Paul B. Hartzog<br>
--------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>� - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br>
<br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br>
<br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>Commons Strategies Group, <a href="http://www.commonsstrategies.org/">http://www.commonsstrategies.org/</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>