[P2P-F] AN IMPORTANT PIVOT MOMENT TOWARDS A THE EMERGENCE OF A COLLECTIVE ORGANIC INTELLECTUAL FOR THE COMMONS MOVEMENT

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but actually, many former members say exactly that, that the Impact Hub is
extractive.

The general complaint is that the venture-based ownership model is
generating too much pressure on what should be a collaborative and
participative model ..

Personally, I have witnessed the forced smiles of many of hostesses (often
the hubs are led by female members and employees), who are under great
pressure to 'perform' their participative duties (number of events
organized, number of new clients recruited, etc ..); and heard from
outsiders, that an enormous amount of skills are required for relatively
low pay,

I haven't verified any of this, but this is based on testimonies,

Michel



On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 6:35 PM, David de Ugarte <david at lasindias.coop>
wrote:

> I did not mean they were extractive, they are just a network of coworking
> spaces, what I pointed is the difference of this kind of transnational
> network and phyles: having a common identity alternative to that of
> nationalism and taking care of there members in case of necessity.
> Impacthub does not provide other identity different to the one that
> provides you to be client of a nice transnational landlord nor takes care
> of you more than any firm takes care of a client.
>
>
>
> On 2016-10-23 13:29, Bob Haugen wrote:
>
>> I'm not familiar with ImpactHub (just looked at their website a bit,
>> though). In what way are they extractive?
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 2:47 AM, Michel Bauwens
>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 10:13 PM, David de Ugarte <david at lasindias.coop>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> but essentiallly for me a phyle is a trans-national business eco-system
>>>> for a community and its commons
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree, but could have sense to be more specific in order to separate
>>>> it
>>>> from pure transnational ecosystems as ImpactHub including something
>>>> about
>>>> identity or responsability on the welfare of the individual partners?
>>>> What
>>>> do you think?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree that is a part of the definition, to distinguish it from the
>>> extractive models, which I think the ImpactHub actually is, despite its
>>> original good intentions ..
>>>
>>> by the way, all assistance in mapping the new global nomadic networks
>>> would
>>> be very welcome:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Category:Nomadic_Infrastructures
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for me las indias, enspiral, sensorica, ethos VO go in that direction
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great!
>>>>
>>>> Big hug
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 7:11 PM, David de Ugarte <david at lasindias.coop>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Great Michael!
>>>>>
>>>>> So... it could be interesting to have a common, and a little bit
>>>>> detailed, definition of phyle understanding proto-phyle as all the
>>>>> nucleus
>>>>> going in that direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you make the honours? :-D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-10-18 14:03, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> personally, I am talking about some coordination and cooperation
>>>>> between
>>>>> proto-phyles ...
>>>>>
>>>>> coordinating commons-based production is a different topic, equally
>>>>> interesting but this was not the topic of the original invite,
>>>>>
>>>>> of course, phyles could <also> coordinate their production, if they
>>>>> were
>>>>> more fully developed etc ..
>>>>>
>>>>> Michel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:58 PM, David de Ugarte <david at lasindias.coop
>>>>> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah! OK, this is about coordinating commons based projects, not about
>>>>>> phyle making. So, the question should be then how phyle nucleus as
>>>>>> ours, can
>>>>>> contribute to these movement towards territorial coordination of
>>>>>> commons
>>>>>> based projects, Am I right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We agree with that idea/project and we will give our best to it, no
>>>>>> doubt. But, please lets use the word phyle with its meaning. From its
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> origins the phyle idea had a very concrete goal: to create an
>>>>>> alternative to
>>>>>> national identity able to complement the fading (¿collapsing?)
>>>>>> welfare state
>>>>>> and take responsibility for its own members (social security, health,
>>>>>> guarantee of job and trade inside, safety and freedom of movements,
>>>>>> etc.)
>>>>>> what made mandatory to the few phyle nucleus existing then, to have a
>>>>>> presence and a real autonomy in the open market while constructing a
>>>>>> money-free economy in its interior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-10-18 12:58, David de Ugarte wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great thanks to you both!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-10-18 12:57, Stacco Troncoso wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the Commons Association text in our blog, if you don't like
>>>>>> PDFs
>>>>>> ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/unifying-commons-based-projec
>>>>>> ts-in-a-self-organised-solidarity-economy/2016/09/09
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You all might find the pdfs below to be relevant:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>> From: Christian Siefkes via Commonsverbuende
>>>>>>> <commonsverbuende at lists.commons-institut.org>
>>>>>>> Date: 2016-10-18 5:06 GMT-05:00
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [commonsverbuende] Commons Associations jetzt auch in
>>>>>>> Englisch
>>>>>>> To: commonsverbuende at lists.commons-institut.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hallo Hannes und alle,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/10/16 15:41, Christian Siefkes via Commonsverbuende wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, ich werde PDFs erzeugen und hochladen und dann hier nochmal
>>>>>>>> Bescheid sagen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ich habe die PDfs jetzt erstellt und bei Keimform hochgeladen. Sie
>>>>>>> sind
>>>>>>> vom
>>>>>>> deutsch- bzw. englischsprachigen Artikel aus verlinkt oder direkt
>>>>>>> unter
>>>>>>> folgenden URLs zu finden:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deutsch:
>>>>>>> http://keimform.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/commonsverbund.pdf
>>>>>>> Englisch:
>>>>>>> http://keimform.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/commons-associ
>>>>>>> ation.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herzliche Grüße
>>>>>>>          Christian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> |--------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- christian at siefkes.net
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> | Homepage:   http://www.siefkes.net/   |   Blog:
>>>>>>> http://www.keimform.de/
>>>>>>> | Wie Produktion zur Nebensache wurde:
>>>>>>> www.keimform.de/2013/freie-quellen-1/
>>>>>>> | Why Production No Longer Worries Us:
>>>>>>> www.keimform.de/2013/free-sources-1/
>>>>>>> |------------------------------------------- OpenPGP Key ID:
>>>>>>> 0x980FA6ED
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Was darf die Satire?
>>>>>>>      Alles.
>>>>>>>          -- Kurt Tucholsky
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Commonsverbuende mailing list
>>>>>>> Commonsverbuende at lists.commons-institut.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commonsverbuende
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 5:19 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Responses inline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 5:06 AM, David de Ugarte
>>>>>>>> <david at lasindias.coop> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Bob,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it is a really interesting theoretical approach but... I guess we
>>>>>>>>> are still
>>>>>>>>> far from the point when we could attend basic consumption demands.
>>>>>>>>> The real
>>>>>>>>> existing fabric of p2p production is unproportionally based in
>>>>>>>>> services (as
>>>>>>>>> it is natural because p2p production was born in the digital
>>>>>>>>> economy).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am aware it's mostly services now, except for food, which could be
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> place to start on material goods, at least in regional networks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Software, however, is the heart of p2p production now, and that is
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> coordinated very well between groups or often not even within
>>>>>>>> groups.
>>>>>>>> The Mutual Aid Networks, for example, use several apps that do not
>>>>>>>> talk to each other. And several Mutual Aid Networks are starting up,
>>>>>>>> that will multiply the same problem. Same for Fair Coop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Designs for material goods is another possibility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Increasing diversity of production is today a trend and a goal, but
>>>>>>>>> I guess
>>>>>>>>> diversity is not still big enough even for supporting a viable
>>>>>>>>> productive
>>>>>>>>> coin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because of it, from the very beggining we envisioned mutualism as
>>>>>>>>> the path
>>>>>>>>> of making phyles grow inside a wider vision we call post-laborism.
>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>> have a look to this post (you will probably have to use google
>>>>>>>>> translate)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://lasindias.com/post-laborismo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, will study.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2016-10-16 11:56, Bob Haugen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, cutnpaste error. Should have been section entitled "How we
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> implement a Mutual Coordination Economy based on existing
>>>>>>>>>> organizations".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 3:04 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> then see from there if it makes sense to have some extra layer of
>>>>>>>>>>>> alignment between 'proto-phyles'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could this be it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-signals-used-by-capit
>>>>>>>>>>> alist-supply-chains-could-serve-a-mutual-coordination-
>>>>>>>>>>> economy/2016/02/10
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> See the section entitled
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-signals-used-by-capi
>>>>>>>>>>> talist-supply-chains-could-serve-a-mutual-coordination-
>>>>>>>>>>> economy/2016/02/10"
>>>>>>>>>>> and my comment below:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-signals-used-by-capit
>>>>>>>>>>> alist-supply-chains-could-serve-a-mutual-coordination-
>>>>>>>>>>> economy/2016/02/10#comment-1551200
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Michel Bauwens
>>>>>>>>>>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> dear David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have great difficulties lately to monitor my emails, 5755 to
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>> <g>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> so I missed this important response, and the ones following
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will
>>>>>>>>>>>> process in a moment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing for me, is perhaps that we can organize a common
>>>>>>>>>>>> skype
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> joshua vial / Alanna Krause for Enspiral, Robert Pye for Ethos,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Natalia for lasindias, tibi from Sensorica, perhaps others ? And
>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>> from there if it makes sense to have some extra layer of
>>>>>>>>>>>> alignment
>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'proto-phyles'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I copy Ann-Marie for the p2p foundation, for assistance in
>>>>>>>>>>>> coordinating
>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>> such meetup if there is agreement on doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the previous email in this thread is an email from our
>>>>>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>>>>>> deceased P2P colleague Jean Lievens, I am sharing a special
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought in
>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>> remembrance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 6:12 PM, David de Ugarte
>>>>>>>>>>>> <david at lasindias.coop>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We completely agree!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a nodal moment because this convergence, I guess,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reflects
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deepening concern in wide social sectors. In our case, we are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiencing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since October's Somero a widening of  our audience and a closer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> relation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with other communities. Last week, in example, we had by first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, more than 10.000 unique visitors in our blog in only a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> day, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communard Manifesto is spreading a lot faster than we thought:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example volunteers -we did not know before- translating it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Switzerland
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Portugal to German and Portuguese languages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, we are sensing not only the appearance of a «P2P
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theoritical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> camp»,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but the emergence of a «P2P audience» probably product of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disenchanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the political hopes hegemonic only a year ago between the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the activists in countries like Spain or Greece.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Michel, what comes now? How could we contribute?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016-05-21 22:06, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AN IMPORTANT PIVOT MOMENT TOWARDS A THE EMERGENCE OF A
>>>>>>>>>>>>> COLLECTIVE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ORGANIC
>>>>>>>>>>>>> INTELLECTUAL FOR THE COMMONS MOVEMENT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above has always been the ambition of the P2P Foundation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe this is now coalescing .. some signs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Las Indias has consolidated all its original insights in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> published Communard Manifesto (Steve Herrick: you can perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>>> let them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about this posting here as they are not on fb)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the last video by Dmytri Kleiner, which I posted here, also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shows a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> convergence towards this multi-modal approach (working for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengthening
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the new economy within the existing one) and has a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> precise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and many innovative concepts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the critique by Alanna Krause on the blockchain which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> posited,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the 'transvestment' practices, show that both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory, and the subjectivity of Enspiral is moving in the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direction
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) as for myself, I am working on a more theoretical book in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> aligning all our pasts insights following the overview of Kojin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karatini ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I may be forgetting some other elements, but here we are, there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively, a collective organic intellectual at work, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the strategies to be followed by the forces of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commons, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that may have been there in seed form, but is about to flower
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS IS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HUGELY IMPORTANT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not implying here of course that there are no differences
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches of these groups, but that they are moving broadly in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> direction .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At present, there are not any formal bridges between these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are occasional informal contacts, and the memes do seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With Dmytri Kleiner, we are discussing a 'Transvestment'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berlin at the end of this year, no funding yet, this could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for these groups to enter into more coherent dialogue,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Strategic direction steward P2P Foundation. Director of content
>>>>>> commonstransition.org
>>>>>> Co-founder guerrillatranslation.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>>
>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>
>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>>
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>
>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>
>>
>


-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org


P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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