[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] The End - of the list

Sun May 8 16:59:50 CEST 2016

Dear Orsan,

alone you explain the Nw Labour List for terminated. Formally you can do 
it. Actually not, because the members have to make this decision. Lists 
are like our children. They will be independent, autonomous.

In my diary I wrote: "Actually, I should reply Orsan. He remade his way 
alone. Quite understandable, but without perspectives."

The conflicts and disorientation in the Nw Labour List have little to do 
with the persons. There are fundamental contradictions which crystallize 
at the persons. The questions stay always in the room: What future do we 
want? For what future do we work?

And these questions directly accesses our personal perspectives. Do we 
want a simple, parasitic form of existence, where others take the 
concrete work for us (or have to do)? Or do we even make our 
contribution for that, what we use?

We can also describe these poles as representative and parasitic elite 
instances, based on the slavery as a substructure or the self-organized, 
independent local economy based on democratic self-organization. We 
could now explain many details and describe the opportunities that exist 
today.

But this is about the Nw Labour List. From the name, it may be a central 
instance of the discourse. But if they are as many lists flooded with 
any text from outside, without describing their own position and 
perspective, then this list is for the junkyard. And I suspect that this 
is done by design.

We need the discourse of the active people who are searching on the go. 
They wish to formulate their questions freely, substantiate their 
answers freely and they want to pass this to the critical reflection.

It is a space of theoretical reflection and interaction. Our practical 
work is done in our local reality. There arise the questions for which 
we need answers. But that also means, that without these practical 
fields, there  are no questions.

This is perhaps the reason why the Nw Labour List so much slipped into 
the arbitrariness, and its full potential has been stored in the 
refrigerator.

A similar situation we find in the lists of the IGF (Internet Governance 
Forum), IUF (Internet Ungovernance Forum), ISOC (Internet Society) and 
the like. There is now generally recognized that telecommunications in 
the form of an Internet, a transport system for digital data in packet 
form, technologically is very simple. Difficult it is only because a 
giant parasitic apparatus was constructed about and this now is fighting 
for its preservation.

And this we find also in the representative political systems, all of 
which are superfluous and fight for its preservation. And to our 
conflicts in the "Commons" environment to make it clear: even this comes 
from the conservation struggles of superfluous parasitic structures.

That on this basis the gentle form of exclusion of other opinions is 
replaced with fascist exclusion practice, it is clear. Or?

I do not intend to participate in farewell ceremonies to the Nw Labour 
List. If it is needed, it is created. If not, it does not arise or is 
dissolved.

It is not long ago that you wanted to leave the list for personal 
reasons, or at least pass the Administration. In your critical 
reflection to the financing of "commons" oriented organizations by 
parasitic robbers realized that your view is not yet completely 
tarnished. In this sensor and these feelings you should always leave 
you. Also the churches talk of service to others and think about the 
robbery that they organize. And your friend Peter Waterman, active for 
years in the trade unions? Be careful with such "friends".

In this list, the class struggle is raging. The list members do not 
engage in class struggle. The list itself is the subject of the class 
struggle.

many greetings, willi
Boa Vista, Brasil

Am 07/05/2016 um 17:37 schrieb Orsan Senalp:
> Dear Peter, Willi, Bob and all,
>
> Today is exactly the 3rd anniversary of this lists creation in 2013.
>
> I would like to thank all who has joined the list, contributed or not, and made it sort of thoughtful and, at least for me, very useful exchange space.
>
> Intention has never been to create what the list has become; yet the sources, individuals and how the world evolved around in time let things happen this way. Although idea was something more comprehensive, collectively managed, and somewhat focused discussion I can take responsibility on my part for moving away from that perspective and negative aspects emerged in the communication that took place on this space; as well as rather unproductive aspects of it. Like spamming and making people spend time and energy to read or erase emails; such could have been used in better ways; no matter how large or small they were.
>
> I accept that we could not manage any labour networking, nor networking our labour towards some concrete end results. Yet I hope times and energies put here by all would have contributed and would be contributing in positive change somewhere or sometime else.
>
> So, instead of being have to get rid of this or other person, I believe time has arrived to get rid of the space itself which completed part of its mission -yet failed in others.
>
> Anyone who wish to do so can download the email content from archives page. if you like to do that you ca do it in coming months. We have had already used lots of server space voluntarily provided by a friend (Albi) for free, so can be good to release that space for other uses. So by first of July I suppose the list can be deleted from where it is hosted now.
>
> Although I do not agree with the positions they took in passing 3 years of politics we owe thanks to organizations -about which I have been harshly critical- like Tni and transform which also made this experience possible. I hope Walter, Marco, Hilary and others of course would excuse me and accept my appreciation.
>
> Thanks all again, and stay in touch with solidarity!
>
> Best,
>
> Orsan
>
>
>
>> On 06 May 2016, at 18:40, peter waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In so far as this amounts to a further ad hominem attack, which makes no single reference to the content of posted item, I offer the following choice to Orsan and to other contributors to this list:
>>
>> 1. Get rid of Willi
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2. Get rid of me.
>>
>> The principle of tolerance is qualified. It implies place/space for people who believe in dialogue and with a dialogical mode of expression. Ad hominem attacks are the first refuge of Stalinists or other Vanguardists who think they have they have the keys to the kingdom of rectitude and both the right and duty to shit on others without reading what they say.
>>
>> I don't mind moving my efforts elsewhere.
>>
>> PeterW
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 5:50 PM, willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>> Am 06/05/2016 um 02:29 schrieb Peter Waterman:
>>>> http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/1254.php
>>>
>>> Dear Peter,
>>>
>>> mostly all this "Labour Leader" are corrupt. This people never want to go in direction to our future. They have only her private interests. And this everywhere on our planet.
>>>
>>> many greetings, willi
>>> Boa Vista, Brasil
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Click for recent writings:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAVbfM6AWJpUmloOEhtUlppSnM/view?usp=sharing
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>
>
>
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