[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] who is for and who is against basic income

Wed Aug 10 16:35:50 CEST 2016

hi Dmytri,

obviously I use another logic

my logic is

some of the people who advance UBI have a neoliberal agenda (including the
neoliberal left as suggested by TD)

that doesn't prove that most of the UBI tradition and proponents have that
agenda (that is in my view, certainly disproven)

now of course I am very interested in a bibliography that proves that some
of the neoliberals who support UBI are involved in a plot, and I hope you
can provide it, it would be very interesting for us all

but that would of course not prove your claim,

your claim to be true would have to prove that other propositions for a
 UBI do not exist, and a knowledge of the future that the majority of
proponents would loose out in any conflict

this is also a prediction that you know in advance how the social struggle
(or class struggle) would end, and in way that is discontinuous with the
history of social advances in the past (where social advances where the
result of long struggles, massive mobilizations, compromises, and the
self-preservation logics of capital)

I'm not arguing of course that these advances were unilateral victories, I
am only arguing that they were not total victories and plots for capital

you have a lot more to prove in that text, for example that a basic income
is incompatible with a basic outcome ...

I don't mind speculation at all, but when speculation is couched in the
language of absolute certainty, then it requires a lot of proof ..

as they say, extraordinary proof requires extraordinary evidence

but I welcome very much the documentation on the neoliberal side of the
debate,

Michel

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Dmytri Kleiner <dk at trick.ca> wrote:

> On , Michel Bauwens wrote:
>
>> the polls suggest that the idea that the UBI is a neoliberal plot is
>> empirically false,
>>
>> at the most you could say that some of the proposals of UBI may come
>> from neoliberal circles as well
>>
>
> It is empirically certain that UBI is a neoliberal plot, we have the
> documents to prove it.
>
> Please try to understand that the fact that other people also support UBI,
> who are not part of this plot, is not proof against.
>
> Logic! Use it!
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> --
> Dmytri Kleiner
>
> http://dmytri.info
> @dmytri
>

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