[P2P-F] State as a Criminal Orgnisation [Was: Re: [NetworkedLabour] An Open Letter to the Fabian Society (was: Re: New models of leadership)]

Sun Aug 7 22:46:23 CEST 2016

To be more precise; gülen - liberals - Erdoğan coalition launced a cleaning campaign on old military beurocratic ruling class, under the meme case 'Ergenekon' (name comes from a nationalists myth about the rise of Turks from inner asia and their flow to West and anatolia). They declared old state class as terörist, including all army, highest level beurocrats got arrested as terrorists. Then Erdoğan broke with first liberals which were controlled by Gülen and CIA. Then gülen-CIA led legal and police operations came as waves of offense to take down Erdogan. All kinds of deception and info war tactics were witnessed in last 5 years. This time again the same high level posts in army, jurisdiction, beurocracy, media and education declared as members of a terrorist organization and mass arrests wave renewed. Seems like the distinction between terrorist organization and state blurred and dissolved. sure this has been happening at times of revolutions and wars all the time, since the emergence of the state concept which is based on 'property', as opposite of the commons. Therefore the core logic of state in general, but especially capitalist nation state has always been based on criminal activities, destroying the commons in favor of the benefit of private individuals; holding power through the market and the state. Solution the new movements find, and earth needs way outside these two. Communization of the state means its simultaneous dissolution on the road to dignity.

Best, 
Orsan

> On 07 Aug 2016, at 17:56, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> After what happened in Turkey, in last 10 years, i started to trend to see as an mafia like organized crime or terror organization. 
> 
> Briefly: after Erdoğan coalition formed with a civil-coupe between 1999 and 2001, with the activist international efforts of Gülen movement, there emerged a coalition of forces (reformist Milli Görüş [nationalist wiev] under the leadership of Abdullah Gül and Tayyip Erdoğan + Left / Right Liberals + transnational Gülen cult) that took over the parliamentary system in order to lock Turkey into neoliberal capitalist class project, and its geo-political agenda (I wrote may master thesis on this titled 'transnationalsation of governance and governance of transnationalisation: capitalist restructuring of the Turkish secondary contender state and my brother gursan in the cc expanded this research on transnationalisation of state and Capital in turkey and wrote his phd dissertation) to hold on global hegemonic power position, against BRICS ruling classes. In this intra-ruling class war, including those in the twins towers in New York, many millions innocent people, mostly in Muslim countries massacred brutally by western arsenal, either directly used by Western alliance, or by their puppets in targeted countries. So both international state structures, dynamics of inter-state system, and national-state, with its sub-regional and local apparatus, acted and re-acted as criminal mafia like organization; in all fields, towards human life but also nature in general. 
> 
> This makes a strongest critics of ideas about gradual change, radical reforms, and acting like a partner with this criminal organization network known as intern-state system. As in latest report of Commons Strategies Group on State, Jessop's and especially Pablo Solon's example tells a lot how partnering with state becomes turning into 'partners in crime'. I think supporters of the statehood, or the state in general, it's logic off rule as 'hegemony sum oppression', refuses to see and criticize their positive feelings about the state, and illusions of hope about it. I think this is simply because of certain dependence on direct or indirect fiscal and material sources. The material structures, on which existence and being depended on, most of the time mistaken and wrong belief, determines the consciousness. 
> 
> While commoners and alternative producers of all kinds prove that other wise is very much possible; and scaling up of their networks of local economies, cultures, politics just require conscious and hard efforts, as well as very good organized communication, and tough struggle, can replace the criminal logic of the state and its agency. Pablo Solon honestly admits how the structural forces of state turned them criminals, unwillingly, but did they pay for what they did to people and the resources of the country? 
> 
> We need a very strong, people's law, charter movement, and a global Zapatista kind of movement, to resist and stop TTIP, TTP, and change the world without taking the power, or giving ourselves to it.      
> 
> In solidarity, 
> Orsan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7 aug. 2016, at 05:44, Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely, and thanks! If I'd read Mason and more autonomist stuff
>> like Dyer-Witheford at the time I wrote that, I'd probably have made a
>> better argument.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin I guess this give more derailed insights of your position, hope it is okay to share here: https://c4ss.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SomeRevCarson.pdf
>>> 
>>> Orsan
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 7 aug. 2016, at 04:33, Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In my opinion "reformism" and gradualism are two entirely different
>>>> things -- the difference being that the later envisons a transition to
>>>> a system that is fundamentally different, but simply sees the
>>>> transition as a medium- or long-term process, whereas the former wants
>>>> to stabilize and ameliorate the existing system of power.
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Michel Bauwens
>>>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for your reply, what is very striking that not the lack of clarity
>>>>>> of your opinions on Fabians and relation to Fabianism, but rather a
>>>>>> weak confirmation you have given only one thing find good in it;
>>>>>> namely guild socialism; or cooperative solidarity economy vision. I
>>>>>> would guess this means you believe in gradual change instead of
>>>>>> full-force attack at the heart of the machine; which kills billions of
>>>>>> people and destroy the planet; the main principle of the Fabians.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Orsan,
>>>>> 
>>>>> it seems we are re-doing here the 250 year old battle between revoluton and
>>>>> reformism, and that your critique of Pat, and sometimes of me, is that we
>>>>> are reformists.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally, I don't see myself as a reformism in the sense it was defined,
>>>>> 
>>>>> but, I do consider this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> * the record of revolution is abysmal, with at least 100 million death when
>>>>> the revolutionaries were in power (the soviet one, but the earlier french
>>>>> was almost as dramatic); and an untold number during the ongoing defeats of
>>>>> those that did not succeed
>>>>> 
>>>>> * the record of social democracy in its golden age was extraordinary, at
>>>>> least for the western working class, but I would argue, if you look at
>>>>> national liberation, that was also a fundamental advance, not to mention
>>>>> civil, gender rights etc ..
>>>>> 
>>>>> * but even the revolutionaries who were combatting reformism, were not
>>>>> against reforms
>>>>> 
>>>>> * now, there is a lot of evidence of social unrest, there were social and
>>>>> political and electoral s shifts that brought progressives to power, but is
>>>>> there any evidence that global south workers for example are revolutionary
>>>>> .. I would argue, they are not, even as they fight radically for social and
>>>>> labor improvements
>>>>> 
>>>>> People like Pat Conaty , and myself, want post-capitalist structural
>>>>> reforms, and a phase transition, but at the same time, we are not opposed to
>>>>> reforms and to any social advances that social movements can win
>>>>> 
>>>>> we want full and real democratization, an end to extractive regimes and
>>>>> practices
>>>>> 
>>>>> yet, you continuously paint us as enemies it seems, and use a sliding scale
>>>>> that always ends up with the enemies of the people
>>>>> 
>>>>> it always seems that your real enemy is not the 1%, but those of the 99% who
>>>>> do not share your views ..
>>>>> 
>>>>> I see pat conaty, john restakis and others in the network for a cooperative
>>>>> commonwealth and synergia, as people with a lifelong record of fighting for
>>>>> the betterment of their fellow humans
>>>>> 
>>>>> they want reforms, but they are not reformists,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michel
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>> 
>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list
>>>>> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>>>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kevin Carson
>>>> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory
>>>> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
>>>> 
>>>> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow
>>>> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous
>>>> 
>>>> Homebrew Industrial Revolution:  A Low-Overhead Manifesto
>>>> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com
>>>> Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Kevin Carson
>> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory
>> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
>> 
>> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow
>> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous
>> 
>> Homebrew Industrial Revolution:  A Low-Overhead Manifesto
>> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com
>> Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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