[P2P-F] [Commoning] [commoning] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament

Thu Feb 12 17:56:14 CET 2015

let's ask our greek friends what is the best way we can help them, and then
see what we can do collectively ?

Michel

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we
> call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding...
> so on to make this happen. If not now, when?
>
> Orsan
>
> Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45:
> > there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in
> >> Greece...
> >>
> >> Roberto Verzola
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700
> >> "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <whoeschele at commonsabundance.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Friends,
> >>>
> >>> Very interesting discussion!
> >>>
> >>> I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p
> >>> concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in
> >>> touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be
> >>> useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1)
> >>> there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere
> >>> (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that
> >>> break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are
> >>> actual models that can be implemented and there are people both
> >>> inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
> >>>
> >>> It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek
> >>> negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new
> >>> approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a
> >>> resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results
> >>> for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would
> >>> then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in
> >>> this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there
> >>> are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear
> >>> from you what you think about this.
> >>>
> >>> By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager,
> >>> when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is
> >>> that personal connection!
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>> Wolfgang
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely
> >>> endorses commons strategy before parliament
> >>> From: George Papanikolaou <georgepapani at gmail.com>
> >>> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm
> >>> To: Eleftherios Kosmas <elkosmas at gmail.com>
> >>> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <kostakis.b at gmail.com>,
> >>> p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org, Commoning
> >>> <commoning at lists.commons-institut.org>,
> >>> "tapas at lists.p2pfoundation.net" <tapas at lists.p2pfoundation.net>,
> >>> Commoning List <commoning at lists.wissensallmende.de>
> >>>
> >>> Eleftherios thank you for the translation.
> >>> Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2
> >>> (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an
> >>> important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to
> >>> the commons ideas.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> George
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas
> >>> <elkosmas at gmail.com> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished
> >>> message.
> >>>
> >>> Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to
> >>> translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and
> >>> linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not
> >>> be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
> >>>
> >>> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
> >>>
> >>> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a
> >>> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter
> >>> of the commons personally and in public is the following.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with
> >>> a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events
> >>> happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and
> >>> now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the
> >>> collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually
> >>> spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in
> >>> the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the
> >>> deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by
> >>> addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social
> >>> security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in
> >>> Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced
> >>> forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a
> >>> strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which
> >>> would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people,
> >>> optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the
> >>> Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of
> >>> pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for
> >>> us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity
> >>> and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of
> >>> different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that
> >>> these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are
> >>> those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by
> >>> the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in
> >>> Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Greek speakers could find the original here.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
> >>>
> >>> I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas
> >>> <elkosmas at gmail.com> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr
> >>> Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind
> >>> that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek
> >>> language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am
> >>> not a trained translator)
> >>>
> >>> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
> >>>
> >>> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a
> >>> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter
> >>> of the commons.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list
> >>> <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org> wrote: understood Vasilis,
> >>>
> >>> but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management,
> >>> and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when
> >>> conditions are right ..
> >>>
> >>> so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on
> >>> the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer
> >>> term change,
> >>>
> >>> Michel
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis
> >>> <kostakis.b at gmail.com> wrote: Michel,
> >>>
> >>> The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find
> >>> anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference.
> >>> However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was
> >>> what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George
> >>> Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he
> >>> highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south
> >>> can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this,
> >>> George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the
> >>> situation and give us time for experimentation".
> >>>
> >>> Let's see...
> >>>
> >>> v.
> >>>
> >>> On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens
> >>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote: This is very important news:
> >>>
> >>> perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ?
> >>> especially in english ?
> >>>
> >>> see:
> >>>
> >>> " Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his
> >>> speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new
> >>> bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global
> >>> orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable
> >>> development."
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
> >>> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
> >>>
> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >>>
> >>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >>>
> >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
> >>>
> >>> Senior Research Fellow
> >>> Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
> >>>
> >>> Research Director
> >>> P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
> >>> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
> >>>
> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >>>
> >>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >>>
> >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> >>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> >>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> http://elkosmas.gr
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> http://elkosmas.gr
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Commoning mailing list
> >>> Commons-Institut e.V. Germany
> >>> Commoning at lists.commons-institut.org
> >>> https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Commoning mailing list
> >> Commons-Institut e.V. Germany
> >> Commoning at lists.commons-institut.org
> >> https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Commoning mailing list
> > Commoning at lists.wissensallmende.de
> > http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
> >
>

-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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