[P2P-F] integrative approach needed for social change

P2P Foundation mailing list p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org
Mon Feb 9 14:44:31 CET 2015

Dear someone?

This is very interestingly said. Indeed I agree that were these deep social/emotional "group dynamics" as you say, excavated, validated, and worked on explicitly, the positive power for truly meaningful work and change in our world, would be amazing.   Not least because do this part of the work well, and understanding it is work that has to be done simultaneously to make meaningful change in any truly transformative and lasting way, is much more enjoyable and thus much more appealing for all to join in to do, together.  

This relates to what I call the "Human Pleasure Vector of Communication" (HPVofC) concept.   The more you actually do this deeper, essential human work, the more the actual interaction and communication becomes pleasurable for all involved, and makes the rest of the "hard work" far more meaningful, rewarding and literally, more of a joy to do.  People do indeed find all sorts of positive energy that can now, clearing these channels of dissension and pain in human relations, flow so much more freely and powerfully.

But I didn't see any signature from whom this key understanding, was posted by?

Appreciated it, regardless,

 From: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
To: "p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org" <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] integrative approach needed for social change

this logic of conscious and unconscious exclusion, is a sort of at the DNA of hierarchical and institutional power sharing and subordination of self, to those above you and subordinate those coming later then you.. in the network. so the social group dynamic flows accordingly. To be honest these dynamics I find vast of time and energy.. some times i feel it is necessary to work on it, and sometimes I flee from there. but today, in this conjuncture, it is both easier and obligation to work on these tendencies. to transform cooperations, state apparatus, schools, unions, foundations, associations, cooperatives, and so on, for taking the transition ideas to critical mass level. Why it is easier is the p2p communication, with conscious team work you can design a strategy to penetrate and swarm to take down the pillars of any targeted traditional institutions from inside, outside, top and bottom. so it can be possible to including those excluded, by bypassing
 the cadre of the institution is possible. i like to argue and think that institutionalization of this kind of un-institutionalization is potentially releasing invaluable and immeasurable social power that are kept enclosed and entropized destroying individuals and communities for millennia already.. it is time to unleash them all..

On 7 feb. 2015, at 12:30, P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org> wrote:

I agree with you Michel. In my own experience I participate in a sharing group which styles itself sacred activists. It has no particular agenda. Someone wanted to join who found climbing the stairs to the meeting room difficult. She proposed looking for another space with disabled access. Others objected that they really liked the room where we are meeting. Personally I was shocked that they would not consider moving to include this person, and I did consider leaving the group. But I had to accept that to them inclusivity was not a priority. And I have continued to attend the group which I still find very rewarding.

At the same time I have maintained a connection with the person who was excluded, and  Inclusivity is still important to me. June and I may continue to 'nudge' while really appreciating and supporting the work that you do, and also appreciating your responses and the opportunity for this discussion.

(I will try to always remember to sign so that you know who this is from.)


On 7 Feb 2015, at 09:43, P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org> wrote:

I am all for an integrative approach, and it is also how I work, but not from a position of, it's all or nothing, but rather from a position of, how can we nudge improvements in every integrated aspect ..

we organized the huge ICC and ECC conferences, which in my eyes and those of many others, where important moments for commons convergence,

but I remember, George Por took a position which I relate to that of Anna, i.e. he was absolutely convinced that integral faciliation was needed .. the reality is, no matter how many times we proposed it, the majority just didn't want it, so you proceed to organize with how people are, not how you want them to be ..

Thanks for this response. What I sense is that it's OK to pursue this topic as long as it is kept separate from the efforts focussed on political and theoretical change. Yet my point is that this is absolutely intrinsic to what p2p is about, the inner and outer aspects of the same thing. Nothing needs to be added, just allowing what is already there to be revealed, and not putting energy into resisting it.

Focussing on external achievements, as in the example of Podemos you gave, can lead to frustration and despair. Unless these feelings are addressed they can sabotage movement solidarity. Likewise the joy and excitement of sharing and collaboration are an integral part of our evolving humanity.

?Without developing the inner culture of the human being, we cannot develop a sustainable future.? E F Schumacher

The inspiring review of Chris Dixon's book by Garces points to the same need to include a more wholistic consciousness in our relationships. Otto Scharma makes the same point. 'We might say it this way: The success of our actions as change-makers does not depend on what we do or how we do it, but on the inner place from which we operate.'



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