[P2P-F] Singularity and Gender - 'The End of the Beginning'
Denis Postle
denis.postle at gmail.com
Mon Aug 31 09:28:41 CEST 2015
Thanks for this Anna, I had missed the earlier messages.
I agree that this list like most of the rest of the world, often seems
in the hidden grip of patriarchy. e.g. the tit for tat listing of
significant womanly voices. Yours is very welcome here.
With one caveat, unless and until significant numbers of us, including
women, deal with our inner tyrants 'dominance' as 'natural' and 'normal'
and even 'inevitable', will continue. The caveat, that as the
psycho-historians have pointed out, the massive improvement in childcare
towards a more child-centred formation, with more present fathers, may
be leading to a different, less domineering politics. Let's hope so. The
alternative means today's men (and women) giving up a devotion to power
that tends to be deeply and often unawarely embedded.
Denis
On 30/08/2015 09:20, anna at shsh.co.uk wrote:
> My original intention in pointing out the lack of women contributors
> to this book was not to give rise to the game of 'tit for tat', in
> terms of equalising numbers of men and women, that is the direction
> the discussion seems to have taken.
>
> My comments were motivated by the fear that these essays, and I
> haven't read them, express the deep schism with nature and reality of
> the patriarchal and dominator culture in which we live, which is
> taking us towards self extermination. That the lack of women
> contributors could be, and it was a question, pointing to ignoring the
> part women need to play in shaping our future.
>
> Below Ted Goertzel writes:
>>
>> Already today,
>> gender is becoming a choice rather than something biologically
>> determined,
>> presumably that will be more so as technology improves. Will men
>> be able to
>> get surgery enabling them to get pregnant and give birth? Or
>> will that
>> function be taken over by incubators? Will we be able to have
>> both male
>> and female sexual organs, as some animals and plants do?
>>
>
> I fear that technology is going in the direction of what is possible
> rather than what is desirable. And the thrill and excitement of
> wondrous achievements are disconnected from what it means to be truly
> ourselves, to feel whole and fulfilled.
>
> Anna
>
>
>
> On 29 Aug 2015, at 06:43, Dante-Gabryell Monson
> <dante.monson at gmail.com <mailto:dante.monson at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Weaver" <silkenweaver at gmail.com <mailto:silkenweaver at gmail.com>>
>> Date: 29 Aug 2015 01:24
>> Subject: Re: Fwd for Ted Goertzel
>> To: <gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be <mailto:gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be>>
>> Cc:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:00 PM, goertzel
>> <goertzel at camden.rutgers.edu <mailto:goertzel at camden.rutgers.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that both science fiction and futurist writing in
>> general are largely male domains. There are some exceptions, such
>> as Charlotte Perkins Gilman's Herland
>>
>>
>> Doris Lessing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Lessing>, also
>> Nobel prize laureate in literature (Canopus in Argos series))
>>
>> Mary Shelly (Frankenstein)
>>
>> Ursula K. LeGuin (Left hand of Darkness!!! - a groundbreaking work of
>> feminist science fiction and many others)
>>
>> C.J. Cherryh (Hugo Award for Down Below Station)
>>
>> Connie Willis ( 11 Hugo awards + 7 Nebula awards, more than any other
>> author ever!)
>>
>> Just to name a few SF giantesses and futurists... :-) See also:
>> Gwyneth Jones's top 10 science fiction by women writers
>> <http://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/dec/08/top10s.science.fiction.women>
>>
>> Not so male domain after all...
>>
>> Weaver
>
>
>
>
> On 29 Aug 2015, at 06:42, Dante-Gabryell Monson
> <dante.monson at gmail.com <mailto:dante.monson at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "goertzel" <goertzel at camden.rutgers.edu
>> <mailto:goertzel at camden.rutgers.edu>>
>> Date: 28 Aug 2015 23:00
>> Subject: Re: Fwd for Ted Goertzel
>> To: <gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be <mailto:gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be>>
>> Cc:
>>
>> It seems to me that both science fiction and futurist writing in
>> general are largely male domains. There are some exceptions, such as
>> Charlotte Perkins Gilman's Herland. I don't know if Ayn Rand counts
>> as a futurist, but she certainly has been influential, albeit with a
>> very sexist view of the world. Perhaps men are more inclined to
>> abstract thought not grounded so directly in experience. In The End
>> of the Beginning we were trying to move to focus to the more
>> immediate future which is challenging.
>>
>> The second most influential secular book of the 19th Century was
>> Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy. But the most influential was
>> Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin. I don't know if the
>> difference between the two is suggestive of the difference between
>> male and female writers generally, but it is suggestive.
>>
>> On 2015-08-28 13:59, Jayne Gackenbach wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Ted for your qualifiers which are excellent points - your
>> right re our book being more about self and yes women do drift to
>> that
>> and further to be fair the VR and digital physics sections (changes
>> and views of reality) are all authored by men, but one - me -
>> anyway while i appreciate the popular press emphasis on gender
>> switching, the reality is that it is a very small percentage of the
>> population - maybe leading edge - hard to say - my point is more
>> along
>> the lines of Wilber's take on gender differences in various
>> transpersonal practices - he comments that men want to stare at walls
>> while women want to hold and embrace and feel - this is of course a
>> bit simplistic but the dominance of male views in the whole idea of
>> transcending consciousness as a sort of silent stillness or blank or
>> pure consciousness is fine but the woman's engaged, active, and
>> intuitive perspective takes the experient in a different direction -
>> how is this related to the issues at hand here - perhaps in how the
>> questions are asked?
>>
>> Jayne
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Francis Heylighen" <fheyligh at vub.ac.be
>> <mailto:fheyligh at vub.ac.be>>
>> To: "Global Brain Discussion" <gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be
>> <mailto:gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be>>
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 11:07:22 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada
>> Mountain
>> Subject: Fwd for Ted Goertzel
>>
>> [This was rejected by the mailing list, probably because Ted is
>> subscribed at the different address than the one he sent this from.]
>>
>> From: Ted Goertzel <tedgoertzel at gmail.com
>> <mailto:tedgoertzel at gmail.com>>
>>
>> "Boundaries of Self and Reality" sounds psychological, which may
>> explain
>> why it interested more women. It is also about current reality,
>> not the
>> Singularity or the Global Brain. So far as I know, no one, male
>> or female,
>> has written about gender issues related to the Singularity. Ben
>> wrote the
>> chapter on The Future of Human Nature in our book, but I don't
>> recall that
>> he discussed gender differences.
>>
>> I think we might interest Humanity+ press on a book on gender
>> and the
>> singularity if someone were to volunteer to organize one.
>> Already today,
>> gender is becoming a choice rather than something biologically
>> determined,
>> presumably that will be more so as technology improves. Will men
>> be able to
>> get surgery enabling them to get pregnant and give birth? Or
>> will that
>> function be taken over by incubators? Will we be able to have
>> both male
>> and female sexual organs, as some animals and plants do? If our
>> life span
>> is greatly extended, will we be able to have generations of
>> children? What
>> would we like the Singularity to bring?
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Jayne Gackenbach
>> <jayneg at athabascau.ca <mailto:jayneg at athabascau.ca>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> As a woman who is editing a book for Elsevier along the same
>> lines as
>> Ben's, if a bit narrower, called "Boundaries of Self and
>> Reality Online",
>> we have 18 contributing chapters lined up of which five are
>> authored by
>> women. Maybe women need to ask women.
>> Jayne
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ben Goertzel" <ben at goertzel.org <mailto:ben at goertzel.org>>
>> To: gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be <mailto:gbrain at listserv.vub.ac.be>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:03:28 AM GMT -07:00
>> US/Canada Mountain
>> Subject: Re: Book "The End of the Beginning" finally published!
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson
>> <dante.monson at gmail.com <mailto:dante.monson at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > after forwarding this message about the book, I was asked
>> why there are
>> only
>> > men within the author list ?
>>
>>
>> Well, we made a web page for the book and sent out a bunch of
>> emails
>> and social media announcements soliciting authors.... Adult
>> males
>> were the ones who responded by sending chapters.... The
>> author list
>> wasn't restricted to our chums, though many who responded
>> were in fact
>> our chums...
>>
>> I did make an effort to get geographical/cultural
>> representation ...
>> but it happened that of the African and Asian transhumanists I
>> solicited, the ones who responded favorably and wanted to submit
>> chapters, were both young males...
>>
>> So I think this really reduces to the question of why the overall
>> topic of the Singularity, transhumanism and advanced tech
>> appeals to
>> men more than women.... When I used to organize transhumanist
>> conferences, recruiting one or two good on-topic female
>> speakers was
>> always something I had to explicitly strive for... I
>> generally found
>> men more eager to push themselves forward and advertise
>> themselves in
>> this way, than women...
>>
>> (Note, I am simply being empirical in the above observations, not
>> making any hypotheses about the causes.... But I note that
>> when I
>> was working in psychology for a while in the 90s, things I
>> organized
>> attracted a high proportion of females.... So this doesn't
>> seem to be
>> an artifact of my or Ted's personal styles, but more of the
>> subject
>> area...)
>>
>> -- Ben
>>
>> -- Ben
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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