[P2P-F] [P2P-es] A parting of ways with Bernardo Gutierrez

Sun Jul 6 05:57:09 CEST 2014

ok, Gordon, we are going to try to avoid the understandable hostility here
f, and I realize you are still seething for what happened to you. I have
suggested to Bernardo to apologize for the falsehoods he spread , but let's
leave it at that here and try to have a civilized debate based on the
facts. Bernardo is adult enough to face his conscience. I have apologized
many times to you so don't need to redo it here I hope <g>.

For your info, Bernardo was co-responsible for communication and did an
excellent job on that front. He is spanish but lives in Brazil and
well-known for his skills in guerilla communication.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Gordon Cook <cook at cookreport.com> wrote:

> Here is the requested url michel
>
> While Michel is preparing his report, anyone wishing to read mine may  hit
> this URL
>
> http://www.cookreport.com/pdfs/July-augCRecuadorfinal.pdf
>
> hidden i.e. not advertised on my web site.
>
> I am curious as to where Bernardo came from?  His was the outside media
> company hired by Daniel?  You will see in the about my evidence of his
> changing the rules at the last hour for the summit thunderclap.  Quite
> funny.
>
>
>
> On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm really sorry Bernardo, but your threat has been public and can be
> verified; second, if you publicly and privately threaten me, I don't think
> you have any moral authority to criticise that I make these threats public.
> I will send the URL of your facebook threat here a bit later. You will note
> that this facebook account with a few thousand followers, and with several
> dozen exclusively positive evaluations of my relatively positive evaluation
> of the flok process, none of them even 'liked' the threat. It was
> absolutely out of place, while a political discussion of flok is entirely
> in place. So here is the warning: please respond to political analysis by
> counter-analysis. But if you respond to analysis by threats and character
> assasination, you will find me on your way.
>
> To deny that you did it won't work, and neither will be the argument that
> it was all meant of a joke. I know you are following a precedent. Somebody
> we both know accused Gordon Cook, of 1) not existing 2) being a front of
> Robert Steele 3) being a CIA agent 4) being an adolescent ranter 4) being a
> neocon. That person, who spent several hours online searching for proof,
> spread these accusations, and you gave credence to it by also spreading it.
> When exposed as lies, can you then simple say, after trying to repeatedly
> destroy a person's reputation.
>
> And you still continue, you are shameless. Gordon Cook is the author of
> absolutely stellar reports on p2p infrastructures, which can be verified
> and read at the Gordon Cook report. His policy paper, which is excellent
> and breaks a lot of new ground, is also available online. I copy Gordon so
> he can provide the URL's.
>
> We have to reiterate the case of what happened to Gordon Cook as it was
> exemplary. Like many other authors, Gordon Cook was promited $4,000 for a
> paper. This promise was then unilaterally changed to $3,500 on condition
> that he would attend the summit. Since Gordon had undergone a absolutely
> invasive and painful spinal operation, and needed a series of eye
> interventions to boot. I was physically present twice when the promise was
> made to him to facilitate the trip through a business class trip. Not once,
> but twice. That promise was then also broken. And no, the maximum was not
> done to make it possible. As has been already admitted, it was a conscious
> and political decision not to do it, not a force majeure.
>
> Now, f..ups are always possible. But you know it is a pattern. Every
> person who was asked to leave the project has been systematically maligned.
> I'll review the list again, BH, an excellent journalist and communicator,
> was accused of being on the payroll of US intelligence for publishing a
> critical article; AD, was being branded as 'a spy of Senescyt' and was
> threatened with physical intimidation; a research team member was
> threatened with dismissal for expressing critique on the mailing list. In
> recent days, you have been publicly trashing both the work of the research
> team and the communication team. It's a paranoid style of politics and
> character assasination that has no place in an open culture. If you can't
> avoid trashing people, have the wisdom to do it indoors, but don't publish
> and spread unfounded and unproven accusations via the network.
>
> I want to avoid speaking about this mess, it's not very interesting,
> unless as a generic lesson for the future: don't let hierarchies dominate
> participatory projects.
>
> Bernardo, I invite to challenge my political conclusions from now on, and
> I will avoid publishing the facts of my experience. You have failed to
> intimidate me in my right to politically evaluate flok, move on.
>
> Take a hint from Daniel's approach in this controversy.
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Bernardo Gutiérrez <
> bernardobrasil at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello you all
>>
>> I think there are several misunderstandings and some unfair accusation.
>> Try to be polity and to explain the problems:
>>
>> In the last few days, I have been harassed and threatened by Bernardo
>>> Gutierrez, who tried to suppress the publication of an evalution of the
>>> FLOK process, which you can find here:
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/a-provisional-informal-assessment-of-the-flok-transition-process-in-ecaudor/2014/07/01
>>>
>>>
>> It is complitily false. Never tried .In fact, it is the first time that I
>> know that you published in the blog. Our discussion started when I told you
>> that it was not propor to share in FACEBOOK (it is quite clear in all of
>> our mails), now, those critics to FLOK process, right now. Having had
>> several problems, It is an important moment to know what it is going to
>> happen. May it does not help. I valu your version, but desagree in several
>> points. Correa (the president) invited the guest of the FLOK to the Cambio
>> de Guardia. He spoke about FLOK in Sabatina. We were working with high
>> level politicians, as Cancilleria (minister Patiño), Senplades and even
>> people from presidency. So, I think it was not such an unknow project. In
>> fact, it became, during and after the Summit a quite important project for
>> the Whole Ecuatorian Goverment
>>
>>
>>> In this text, I simply make a political evalution of my 6 months in
>>> Ecuador, as I see it, as I believe was both my right (of free speech), and
>>> a duty to the p2p community, who has been asking for it. It is in my view a
>>> moderate and considered political evaluation, though of course, as my
>>> opinion, open to critique and counter-argumentation.
>>>
>>
>> I think it is good, Michel, And you are an importante person in the
>> process.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> While I would have accepted a conversation asking me to postpone it, in
>>> order to safeguard some potential backroom deal in Ecuador, instead BG
>>> thought it would be useful to publicly threaten the publication of my
>>> private emails, thinking this would frighten me. It doesn't, as I don't
>>> believe I write anything in private that can't see the light of the day.
>>> But private email involves other persons and I find it very ethically
>>> objectionable that he would use this as a threat.
>>>
>>
>> Another big misanderstanding. I think it  horrible to publish any private
>> conversation. In fact, I am super critic with private conversation going
>> public. I was joking and exagerating the fact that Gordon Cook violated
>> privacy and made a report with that. Publishing in networks some things is
>> not good. So, If you understand that, I am sorry. We have more people in
>> that conversation, that probably did not undestand that.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This is not the first time, a few months ago, Bernardo tried to suppress
>>> any balanced treatment of Fora do Eixo (
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Fora_do_Eixo) and even objected to the mention
>>> of chilean groups that were somehow one day, connected with FdO. BG's
>>> totally unfounded accusation then was that "I defended FdO because I was
>>> getting a free PhD from Ivana Bentes".
>>>
>>
>> That is a private mail. PRIVATE CONVERSATION, Michel. But, well, I think
>> that is my personal opinion, yes. I don´t need to hide it.
>>
>>
>>> It gave me a first insight into his unfair mindset. To be clear, I was
>>> not then nor  am I now, neither defending nor attacking FdO, but the p2p-f
>>> is conceived as a pluralistic network to show different perspectives on an
>>> issue, helping people make their own decisions. We don't want to be
>>> factional and choose one side or another within the broad p2p community. I
>>> found it strange then that Bernardo was exerting pressure to have only one
>>> side of the story seen as legitimate, and refused an open debate on the
>>> merits of the critique. I could only be radically against FdO, no nuance
>>> was permitted.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That is not true. I asked you how did you make the list of p2p projects
>> of the year. Almost all the node sof Brazil P2P branch were disgusted with
>> that, none was consulted. . At the end, we knew it was more your list than
>> P2p List. I am specially critic with FdO, but it is on you the aproach
>>
>>>
>>> The second incident came with the aftermath of the FLOK. In the above
>>> evaluation, I avoid studiously to mention or critique internal matters,
>>> believing that it would only make matters worse. But I have had to suffer
>>> there the systematic unfounded accusations against my friends and
>>> associates: BG has simply reiterated and continue to spread unfounded
>>> accusations against excellent people I had the opportunity to work with :
>>> BT,, AD, GC, the research team , the communication team ...
>>>
>>
>> You are again publishing private conversations. With Gordon Cook we
>> argued in the list, that is true. Not the rest. So I will deny that,
>> because is quite far from reality. You also make big critics to many people
>> (some of this list) in our conversations But I think it is not proper to
>> divulgate here, Michel. Private conversation (me and you ) is private.
>>
>>
>>
>>> What is worse, even when I sent information to BG advising him not to
>>> re-iterate these accusations based on facts that I provided to him, he
>>> would continue spreading them, totally ignoring the counter-factuals I had
>>> sent him. For example, BG has coninued to spread disinfo about Gordon Cook
>>> that he is a neocon, opposed to copyleft, and other falsehoods, even after
>>> receiving documentation to the contrary.
>>>
>>
>> I feel sorry, Michel. But Gordon Cook  has been publishing with Copy
>> Right ever. He has a lot of problems, health, as well. The problem began
>> when he told FLOk that he could only travel in business, because of his
>> health problems. The management team tryed, but could no be that. The
>> quality of the drafts sent was not good. Neither shape of paper neither
>> quality. You did a nice job editing the second one amd transforming it into
>> a goog paper. But for many reason, it was impossible to get the business
>> ticket. And he started a war. The burocracy was terrible and he could not
>> be paid (just coming to Ecuador). Believe that has nothing to do with me.
>> After the dirty war he began (violating privacy and laws), he deserve to
>> not be paid, in my opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bernardo's attempt to suppress an independent evaluation is a proof of
>> the latter. How would a healthy p2p process be endangered by an open
>> discussion? The truth is that the flok attempted to create a mythology of
>> success, and of political and social support that wasn't there, and that
>> Bernardo's highly stage-managed twitter storms were part of that effort. "
>>
>> I am not trying to suppress anything, Michel! I just told you that it was
>> not propor to publish now in Facebook!!! in the moment of the reshaping of
>> the project. I feel really sorry of your accusation about communication
>> strategy. A Twitter Storm is a 1% of what we did. We created a strong
>> participatory process, wiht personal meetings, seminars, speeches. We did
>> wordk shop in 24 cities, with 500 local leaders (who were in the summit).
>> we published more than 100 post un few months, we did many hang outs (many
>> with researchers), p2pbeer. We worked with Cancilleria (international
>> affair minister), with their Ecuela Revolución, people from 40 countries.
>> We made meeting in squatters (with Restakis, researcher), we made cultural
>> collaborative mappings, Mumble meetings etc etc. We presented in MAdrid, in
>> the arab-latin american summit, in Media Lab Prado. All of that is
>> communication. Communication is conection, and that is what happened. A
>> twitter storm never work if there is no network. And we got it, with a lot
>> of difficulties. At the begining it was a top down project. It became more
>> organic. So, It is not a twitter storm, Michel.
>>
>>
>> "The very reason that BG is attempting to suppress an evualuation of the
>> FLOK, is that it endangered potential backroom deals. My thesis is: if they
>> are endangered by an open discussion, what value do these deals ultimately
>> have?
>> I'm preparing an evaluative essay on "Hacker Bolchevism, the paranoid
>> style of politics in p2p' to critique the non-prefigurative politics that
>> were so  characteristic of the FLOK internal process"
>>
>>
>> Your critics are necessary. In fact, I respect them. But I think that you
>> do them in the wrong places (Facebook, this list, for example). The last
>> Facebook schandal, some months ago, when they ought some money, was proper
>> and worked. Not this one.
>>
>>
>> "Stalinistic tactics have no place in an open p2p culture".
>>
>> It is commom sense, Michel. this mail of you, for examplo, is out of
>> place in this moment
>>
>> "I do not intend to pollute the p2p lists with these personal antagonisms
>> (even as they reveal antagonistic value systems and political and
>> metholodgical approaches). I will at most respond once to the
>> counter-accusations that will undoubtedly follow this, but I can't tolerate
>> public and private intimidation when I am  no longer part of the flok team".
>>
>> Sorry, but I think this is pollution. No one accusated you in any list. I
>> never would do it.
>>
>>
>> It is me who think you should reconsider your position. We all have
>> (researchers, management team, communication team)  done an interesting and
>> innovative worlk, begining from you and ending with the secretary. It would
>> be a pitty to espoil that
>>
>> Best
>> Bernardo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
>> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki: http://p2pfoundation.net/Spanish_P2P_WikiSprint
>>> Lista https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-lang-es
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.futuramedia.net
>> www.codigo-abierto.cc
>> @bernardosampa (twitter) / @futura_media
>> São Paulo +55 11 43044380 (fijo) +55 11 84881620 (celular)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki: http://p2pfoundation.net/Spanish_P2P_WikiSprint
>> Lista https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-lang-es
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
> record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*
>
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>
>
>

-- 
*Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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