[P2P-F] commons / market / currency questions by Mike Riddell

Mon Jan 27 19:09:37 CET 2014

Please allow me my contributions.
I am particularly interested in point 4 though,
in the context of a local project I am participating.
No need to say, but I do: just my personal opinions :)

1.) A commons is a commons - a shared entity - air, water, an "allmend"
(shared grazing), biodiversity, etc.
It's in the interactions of its users and their needs and accesses that its
components arise...
(in other words I mean it's probably hard to generalize)

2.) Whatever organization its users decide to adopt could work...
Local cultural issues are very important in this context

3.) The "market" is like saying "God" - it's an intangible entity really...
It depends what you mean by it. A healthy community oriented market may be
fine,
a heavily manipulated and controlled market maybe less so...

4.) I am thinking along these same lines lately. Local institutions (like
NGOs, social help groups,
alternative educational orgs, art collectives etc.)  with community
projects should get free credit
to be able to spend in circulation on local service providers, and with
sufficient diversity of participants
in the system, many needs could be served by members, making the units
circulate.

But why would outside speculators want to buy stock from these groups?
If you specifically mention speculators, they are interested in returns
only,
not in the community interest. Stocks often also imply voting power in the
community,
so this to me doesn't seem very appealing. Also, where would these people
get their returns from? It would only work if they would be interested in
returns
generated inside the community, which may be non-monetary...so there could
be little incentive for them.

Things could look differently though if there would be a purposely
sustainability/equitable stock market,
where investors wouldn't be interested in monetary returns foremost, but in
supporting great communities,
and would be open on the nature of the returns. Still this could be done in
bitcoins though (or something similar).

A very ad-hoc response admittedly so bear with me :)

2014-01-27 Karl Robillard <krobillard at san.rr.com>

> Michel,
>
>
> Here are some condensed responses to Mike Riddell's questions from this
> URL:
>
>
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/beyond-greenpirate-cooperation-towards-a-european-grand-alliance-of-the-commons/2014/01/24#comment-628220
>
>
> 1. Specific protocols.  Not so relevant as a general question since
> participants in the commons will be the ones choosing these, but with
> regards
> to currency see #4.
>
> 2. Redefining commons.  The benefit of a commons over a market is it's
> transparency and open access.
>
> 3. Networks effects.  These are very real and not Utopian.
>
> 4. Social value cannot be reduced to a number (credits).  It is relational
> and
> intrinsic (related to #3).
>
>
> -Karl
>
>
> P.S. Had to send this email twice.
>
> _______________________________________________
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