[P2P-F] [commoning] The Co-operative University (Hoeschele, Wolfgang) (Hoeschele, Wolfgang)

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Dante, see my response below:

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson
<dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Michel , ( cc: p2pf list - this post coming initially from commoning list
> )
>

(snip)

> With commons, imho, being a tool that enables such distributed paradigm...
> ( vs imposed dependencies using artificial scarcity to maintain specific
> control )
>
> I can understand how one would want to use resources currently available
> through a "State" power arrangement, especially if one has access to it, to
> support distributed and commons approaches.   Now the question I have, also
> based on another recent thread on Michel's fb (
> https://www.facebook.com/mbauwens/posts/10153639014410548 ) , is :
>
> do Michel, and other people on this "commoning" list ( and p2pfoundation
> list, which I add in cc )
>
> still actively support or believe in supporting a reduction on centralized
> dependencies , co-creating towards more viable distributed approaches,
> even if both co-exist ?
>
> Or did some people on these list, since I started interacting with some of
> you over the last years, give up on such vision ?
>


I don't support wholesale change to any particular approach. The
primary reason I do not is that it will never happen in reality.
Because our world is complex adaptive, even if you succeed in making
such a change in the short term, the system itself will adapt as is
appropriate for unique local conditions, and become something other
than what you planned for, or theorized would be better or best.

So, I temper my vision with what we can know from complex systems science.










>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have my doubts that family and friends can substitute for institutional
>> arrangements,
>>
>> the workers had friends and families, but that wasn't enough, they created
>> voluntary fraternal organisations, unions, parties, mutualities, coops and
>> the rest (which is the necessary work I'm alluding to)
>>
>> but even that wasn't enough, as volunary association only reached a small
>> fraction of the workers, which is why they fought for universal policies,
>> which gave us the welfare state
>>
>> this may not be the model for the today (though I think the partner state
>> is post-welfare, i.e. it builds on it), but temporary assemblies based on
>> consensus won't make the grade either ..
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson
>> <dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Michel
>>>
>>> my feeling is that you mistake image and reality in this last reply of
>>> yours.
>>>
>>> when movements are not visible, it does not mean they are not present, or
>>> active.
>>>
>>> as you and many of us may know and experience, much of the economy is
>>> supported by non recognized, "invisible" contributions,
>>> such as the role of family and friends supporting each other.
>>>
>>> From my point of perspective, it is important to understand cultural
>>> shifts, rather then visible organizations.   Actually, we can move away from
>>> seeing it with organizations all-together,
>>> providing we develop the capacity to ( self)organize, including through
>>> the use of the internet and other means of communication.
>>>
>>> Facilitating self organization can spark empowerment in densifying the
>>> interconnection of alternatives you and others document via the
>>> p2pfoundation, which in turn can further empower a homebrew industrial
>>> revolution / viable ( not debt dependent ) alternatives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Michel Bauwens
>>> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> dear Anna,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that constructing alternative livelyhoods is an important
>>>> priority, but what about collectively organising social movements that are
>>>> capable of solidarity ?
>>>>
>>>> isn't that also a failures, historically, social movements were based on
>>>> membership, and through this institutionalisation, they were able to support
>>>> long-term actions ..
>>>>
>>>> now, occupy/15m types movements are able to organize and scale rapidly,
>>>> but what seems problematic is the capacity to endure ...
>>>>
>>>> have individual livelyhoods may not be enough, social movements
>>>> themselves need to have means to support actions in the long term
>>>>
>>>> if I had time in 2014, which I haven't, I would focus on creating such a
>>>> solidarity mechanism, and turn the p2p foundation into one, it would be a
>>>> mixture of 'p2p factoring' to equalize revenue over the long term for the
>>>> individuals involved, and solidarity mechanisms between individuals .. it
>>>> would be a system available for all peer producers,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Wolfgang and Dante, Much the same feeling of abundance you are
>>>>> talking about was expressed in the Occupy movement in many different
>>>>> countries during 2011/12. Probably you know all about them.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/15/how-to-cook-a-pacific-revolution/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement
>>>>>
>>>>> In London at St Paul's there was a feeling of welcoming everyone, Food
>>>>> and shelter were freely available, in the People's Assembles everyone had a
>>>>> voice, and was listened to. There were study groups,  a mini bookshop and
>>>>> university, with numerous talks on many different topics, women's groups,
>>>>> and a newspaper was produced. Empty buildings were occupied and used for
>>>>> conferences, child minding, yoga, meditation, etc.This was reproduced on a
>>>>> smaller scale in many cities across UK, and around the world. It was a
>>>>> spontaneous example of instant community building. They tried to link up
>>>>> with Trade Unions, and support strikes, Some groups still continue to
>>>>> function, though without living on the streets or in the square.
>>>>>
>>>>> But to my mind the main reason why it was not sustainable was because
>>>>> they were living on charity, they raided dumpsters for food, and much was
>>>>> given spontaneously, but there was no real relationship to the earth and
>>>>> producing their own energy/food/water/waste disposal, etc.  What is needed
>>>>> is an alternative system, which obviously lends itself to more rural areas,
>>>>> which is where most communities are that have survived, rather than in the
>>>>> cities,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also agree with Michel, that what he calls the 'system inside
>>>>> ourselves' needs attention. Activists often concentrate on changing the
>>>>> society without understanding the need to also focus on the oppression we
>>>>> have internalised within ourselves  (Paulo Friere - Pedagogy of the
>>>>> Oppressed) and which we take with us into new freer structures. Living and
>>>>> sharing with others requires a new consciousness, which may account for the
>>>>> failures which Michel cites.  But re-introducing some authoritarian
>>>>> structure avoids meeting the challenge of learning the new language which is
>>>>> required to live in community. Any attempts even if they 'fail' are worth
>>>>> doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Dante for sharing all these ideas and links! Very
>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll add some of those links to the Commons Abundance Network website.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The nomadic people can help weave together the initiatives going on in
>>>>>> different places, to transport ideas from one place to another - especially
>>>>>> such ideas that require practice to work, that cannot be simply put into
>>>>>> words but that have to be lived. Such conveyance of ideas, tacit knowledge,
>>>>>> skills often takes time, so it can't just happen at conferences or
>>>>>> workshops, but may take some days or weeks of working/living together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nomads have also been seen with great suspicion by states ever since
>>>>>> states emerged, because they are almost impossible to control. But they
>>>>>> always existed on the geographical and other margins of the state, and even
>>>>>> throughout their territory, because they can be essential for human
>>>>>> interaction across distance. They help create dynamism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure how to follow up further on this right now, but I think
>>>>>> it would be very interesting to meet at some point. Since you apparently
>>>>>> spend some of your time in Leipzig, maybe the next time I am in Germany we
>>>>>> can meet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wolfgang
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: commoning-bounces at listen.jpberlin.de on behalf of Dante-Gabryell
>>>>>> Monson
>>>>>> Sent: Sat 12/28/2013 3:52 AM
>>>>>> To: commoning at listen.jpberlin.de; p2p-foundation;
>>>>>> p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com; bestwecando at lists.riseup.net;
>>>>>> op-n-m at googlegroups.com; econowmix at googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] The Co-operative University
>>>>>> (Hoeschele,Wolfgang)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Wolfgang,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for sharing your
>>>>>>
>>>>>> article<http://www.scribd.com/doc/49712621/Making-Place-for-Abundance>-
>>>>>> it overlaps with approaches I like to take.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see a number of potentially overlapping and emergent "layers".
>>>>>> I like to hear from other people's dreams or personal experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see the potential for an understanding of distribution / aggregation
>>>>>> layers, mutually empowering each other in an emergent way, building up
>>>>>> critical diversity for further emergence, resilience, and ( ideally ?
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> viable systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ll be happy to map out our non linear understanding. ( a mapping
>>>>>> tool
>>>>>> where we can export our data ? )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *// in advance, apologies to Silke - this will be a long post with a
>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>> links //*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some layers I experiment(ed) with , followed by a few projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to talk about Nomadism, as it embodies imho an understanding of
>>>>>> distributed systems - understanding I wish to use even when not moving
>>>>>> (
>>>>>> geographically ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see *layers of distribution and aggregation mutually empowering each
>>>>>> other in an emergent way.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Short, medium and long term approaches , and resilience through their
>>>>>> overlap, can also be taken into account.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to bring forward potentials for synergies and emergence ( based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> "critical diversity" ? ), and using Integral
>>>>>> City<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_City>and some research ( if
>>>>>> one can call this research ? ) I did or am doing, to
>>>>>> compare or apply it to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *- Nomadism :*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *- it can imho be translated into the experience many more have, for
>>>>>> example at a city scale , or also via "seminar hopping" lifestyles ,
>>>>>> movie
>>>>>> production lifestyles, etc  -*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> talking from personal experience
>>>>>> of a type of nomadism based on a low ( monetary ) threshold ( hitch
>>>>>> hiking
>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would aim at experiencing a flow of temporary autonomous zones (
>>>>>> often
>>>>>> events ), hitch hiking from the one to another, taking into
>>>>>> consideration a
>>>>>> "logistics of options" to direct myself across europe. ( moving east
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> west, north or south, depending on how events may seem to empower more
>>>>>> options for intentional convergence and supporting needs at later
>>>>>> stages )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am glad Wolfgang mentioned "non places".  Much of the time was spent
>>>>>> crossing "non places", moving towards aggregators where, for a moment,
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> shared "warmth" could be experienced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nomadism ( especially moneyless , or almost moneyless )  , in my view,
>>>>>> embodies *an experienced understanding of a distributed system of
>>>>>> distributed systems* : hitch hiking as intentional distributed system
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> used as a layer to facilitate access to - ... hospitality as a
>>>>>> distributed
>>>>>> system - being hosted for a limited amount of time - ... which can
>>>>>> empower
>>>>>> meeting people, which itself can lead to events , to shared learning,
>>>>>> distributed information networks, etc ...  each of these potentially
>>>>>> empowering distributed intentional "tribes".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such social capital constantly being worked on - if not, the energy
>>>>>> imho
>>>>>> dissipates over time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such understanding of nomadism ( / of distributed approaches ) can be
>>>>>> applied within more specific geographical environments, such as a
>>>>>> particular city itself.
>>>>>> I guess others wrote about this ... ( Negri, Hardt, ... )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally like the contents of this site :
>>>>>> http://nomadology.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is important , imho, to reduce "empty places" and time ... as to
>>>>>> make it
>>>>>> viable.    Focusing on places where there is a higher density and
>>>>>> diversity
>>>>>> of mutually empowering potentials, that can , even if one uses a
>>>>>> temporary
>>>>>> autonomous approach, further feed other processes and enable a
>>>>>> continuity
>>>>>> of flow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is some of my shared experience of too much "spreading out" :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Beyond_Road_Burn_Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://hitchwiki.org/en/Aimless_trajectory
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Convergence may be possible in cities - yet the cost of space , in
>>>>>> monetary
>>>>>> terms, or of securing access to space ( if one squats ) is often very
>>>>>> high,
>>>>>> itself leading people to allocate their time to service such monetary
>>>>>> cost,
>>>>>> reducing availability, and increasing the potential for "empty places"
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> or "empty social places", as people are "too busy" ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finding distributed approaches to use such spaces and generate spaces
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> top of existing infrastructure , as to converge social networks /
>>>>>> aggregate, may be one approach.    Narratives imho also play a central
>>>>>> role
>>>>>> in such flows of aggregation.   Time, too, plays a role.   High
>>>>>> turnovers
>>>>>> in certain cities may not enable long term continuity or development
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> projects, unless a combination between longer term residents and short
>>>>>> term
>>>>>> residents can be found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Planning is not always possible when there is such constant
>>>>>> reshuffling -
>>>>>> hence the potential for stigmergic information tools to manage
>>>>>> logistics of
>>>>>> options and generate flow and emergent collective intelligence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it requires constant work on social networks,
>>>>>> but also as I sense there is a need to create reference points for
>>>>>> oneself
>>>>>> to return to,
>>>>>> aggregators which can overlap as to enable continuity , rather then
>>>>>> leaving
>>>>>> empty spaces of nothingness,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> after 5 years on the road I needed to find solutions for places of
>>>>>> unconditional return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A tribe , even if it morphs, yet enables shared intention, can be such
>>>>>> "home" - even if and when it moves in space.   Sometimes families can
>>>>>> represent such form of tribe, yet in western societies , imho,
>>>>>> families end
>>>>>> up being instrumentalized in favor of dominant socio-cultural
>>>>>> narratives.
>>>>>>  In some cases, people like me who wish to generate alternative / less
>>>>>> coercive narratives may end up marginalized from both society and
>>>>>> family.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Underlying logic that I notice from people in mainstream narratives
>>>>>> being :
>>>>>> "if I "have" to do this, why would s/he not , hence I can not support
>>>>>> him,
>>>>>> as it would furthermore requestion my own sacrifices over time to
>>>>>> survive
>>>>>> in this system".      Not all adopt such stance - and it is
>>>>>> interesting to
>>>>>> understand what processes or contexts opens people up ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see a need for overlap in terms of time frameworks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At casarobino ( a nomadbase.org which hosted over 1000 people in a
>>>>>> small
>>>>>> flat over a 3 year time framework ), I noticed how overlap between
>>>>>> short
>>>>>> term ( a night or two ), medium term ( a few days to a week ), and
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>> term ( a few weeks ? ) residents enabled transfer of self organized
>>>>>> cultures and information needed for such self organization, and how it
>>>>>> enabled some form of fluidity in terms of internal social dynamics.
>>>>>> Furthermore, the casa seemed to serve an aggregation role, enabling a
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> of return on a longer time framework, leading to individuals coming
>>>>>> back to
>>>>>> the space, feeding and at the same time maintaining what imho looked
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> intentional subcultures enabling its self organization.  ( may be
>>>>>> interesting to study this further in depth : the role of such
>>>>>> aggregators,
>>>>>> and intentions that may serve as shared engagment and underlying
>>>>>> social
>>>>>> contracts )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the moment, debt seems to be one of the powerful forces leading
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> to be prepared to share engagement / generate social contracts. (
>>>>>> often
>>>>>> generating more centralized control and artificial scarcity ? )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To free ourselves from ( monopolistic and hierarchical ) debt
>>>>>> information
>>>>>> systems of control, I sense we need to generate alternative
>>>>>> distributed
>>>>>> engagement tools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reification is imho risky business ( in terms of control - see this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> article<http://www.academia.edu/4498786/How_does_reification_ensure_our_wilful_subordination_to_authority>
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> , yet worth experimenting in a distributed form - to facilitate
>>>>>> temporary
>>>>>> aggregation ,  as stigmergic tools ?   ( hence mentioning the
>>>>>> netention
>>>>>> research, which also includes understanding regarding Linked Data, ...
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet, indeed, "places" can be aggregators.
>>>>>> I see the risk of "institutionalization" of places ( and centralized
>>>>>> control )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Potentially, such institutionalization of spaces can be ok as long as
>>>>>> networkes are not enclosed within it, and that such networks can
>>>>>> access
>>>>>> sufficient diversity, as to never depend on any one source ... yet be
>>>>>> able
>>>>>> to build on top of institutionalized infrastructure, although I do not
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> this as a solution.   Ideally, one would aim at enabling distributed
>>>>>> forms
>>>>>> of ( temporary ) infrastructure away from institutional influence and
>>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In some cases, there may be potential to support a distributed commons
>>>>>> through institutional support, playing on the strategic interests of
>>>>>> specific institutions in doing so - yet rarely does this seem to come,
>>>>>> imho, without a cost / conditions.   Mapping externalities can be a
>>>>>> potential of tools such as suggested by netention research - including
>>>>>> practices visualizing open value networks ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is some research ( draft ) I did as to attempt such approach in
>>>>>> Leipzig.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea being to benefit from existing infrastructure, at a lower
>>>>>> cost (
>>>>>> in terms of debt ), and creating a sufficiently great diversity and
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of individual projects, as to build distributed systems on top of the
>>>>>> proposal of the usership of a living space
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Prices in Leipzig now seem to have increased - so I needed to change
>>>>>> approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the potential for FabLabs / local small scale manufacturing
>>>>>> based on
>>>>>> open source research and development,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I imagine using vacant spaces ( in urban or countryside environments )
>>>>>> to build up temporary housing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eric H. used the terms "pop up villages" and "furnitecture" (
>>>>>> portemanteau
>>>>>> for furniture and architecture )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> see : http://sharewiki.org/en/Spime_Housing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It can include approaches such as wikihouse ( http://www.wikihouse.cc/
>>>>>> ) ,
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Ideally, I imagine modular and parametric approaches ( I noticed some
>>>>>> designer and architect active on Edgeryder forums think so too )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some cities, such as Brussels, see imho high turnovers ( 15 to 20
>>>>>> percent
>>>>>> of its population annually ? ).   There is a lack of housing, prices
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> rising as population increases, etc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In such kind of context, I also see the potential for some of the
>>>>>> approaches expressed earlier on ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> using the potential of massive amounts of vacant space ( for example :
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> 2 million square meters of empty office space )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to generate temporary contracts where temporary structures (
>>>>>> furnitecture /
>>>>>> urban pop up villages ) can be set up, as some form of temporary
>>>>>> living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example in Brussels :
>>>>>> http://www.annedoloresmarcelis.com/index.php?/camping-town/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Various subcultures can / are converging and overlapping, with each
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> high turnovers, or people keeping a base while living nomadic
>>>>>> lifestyles -
>>>>>> for example dancer networks, theatre networks, but also all kinds of
>>>>>> students, people doing internships, people on short term contracts for
>>>>>> international institutions or businesses, etc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The environment itself can generate new layers and opportunities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beyond reducing costs / increasing quality of life with limited
>>>>>> monetary
>>>>>> income via a sharing economy approach,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it can be about generating conviviality , liberating time by reducing
>>>>>> costs, and increasing potential for interactions around shared
>>>>>> intentions
>>>>>> or interests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Freed time opens up potential for participatory action research and
>>>>>> learning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Approaches that combine subcultures and generations can also be
>>>>>> adopted.
>>>>>> It can be an evolution from the "co-living" approaches which have
>>>>>> permeated
>>>>>> into many urban living / social practices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In effect, such types of temporary spaces generating defacto "free
>>>>>> schools",
>>>>>> some of them leading to "project incubation"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also see :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://opendoor.io/  --> projects
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to generate such spaces for a number of years,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yet I realize that a more specific and easily understood narrative is
>>>>>> needed to enable shared intentional engagement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A narrative for a "school" can be an example of a way to bootstrap
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> engagement.   Incubators , coworking spaces , or even, in the
>>>>>> countryside,
>>>>>> permaculture or construction / renovation projects can all be
>>>>>> narratives
>>>>>> attracting people for a certain period of time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet often there needs to be a "spark", and the threshold for such
>>>>>> spark
>>>>>> often requires a minimum of resources ... which itself already
>>>>>> requires
>>>>>> engagement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although I shared this link earlier on , also see :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://emergentbydesign.com/2012/01/08/93-superhero-schools-collaboratories-incubators-accelerators-hubs-for-social-tech-innovation/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ///
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Convergences such as
>>>>>> http://bwcd.vdcn.org/doku.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> seem to already be a filter for those ready to engage in setting such
>>>>>> prototypes...   hopefully building on the experience of past
>>>>>> "communes",
>>>>>> but hopefully also enabling neo nomadic / distributed overlap, as
>>>>>> explained
>>>>>> in this mail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Hoeschele, Wolfgang
>>>>>> <whoesch at truman.edu>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Thank you for your thoughts, Anna, Dante, Wouter!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Something that I wrote that resonates with what you are saying,
>>>>>> > Dante, is
>>>>>> > here:
>>>>>> > http://www.scribd.com/doc/49712621/Making-Place-for-Abundance
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > And of course, at the Commons Abundance Network, we are seeking to
>>>>>> > provide
>>>>>> > links to any initiatives of the types that you mentioned, and
>>>>>> > develop our
>>>>>> > network as a virtual collaboration space to help such things
>>>>>> > develop. The
>>>>>> > more networking there is among such initiatives, both online and in
>>>>>> > actual
>>>>>> > places, the more they will be able to coalesce into real
>>>>>> > alternatives.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Wolfgang
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> > From: commoning-bounces at listen.jpberlin.de on behalf of Wouter
>>>>>> > Tebbens
>>>>>> > Sent: Fri 12/27/2013 4:54 PM
>>>>>> > To: Dante-Gabryell Monson
>>>>>> > Cc: commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] The Co-operative University
>>>>>> > (Hoeschele,
>>>>>> > Wolfgang) (Hoeschele, Wolfgang)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Dante,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I love the idea of such "uncompromised temple". It would be a
>>>>>> > reference
>>>>>> > site where so many free/libre/open/commons-governed/knowledge
>>>>>> > initiatives
>>>>>> > would come together.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Ideally it would be in a bottom-up organised country. And it would
>>>>>> > of
>>>>>> > course be a node in the distributed network of already existing
>>>>>> > nodes.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Some would spend more time their while others, even with a longtime
>>>>>> > commitment, would only come there physically from time to time.
>>>>>> > Teachers,
>>>>>> > learners of all disciplines would join in special sharing sessions
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> > construct collective knowledge and common projects.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > As you say, if such initiative can be seen as a kind of insurance,
>>>>>> > it will
>>>>>> > be easier for some to invest/contribute. The transition is probably
>>>>>> > not
>>>>>> > going to be easy for many people, so assuring some basics would be
>>>>>> > helpful.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I need to continue other conversations right now, but the ideas
>>>>>> > discussed
>>>>>> > here have my interest. Thanks and best wishes for sustainable and
>>>>>> > solidary
>>>>>> > systems.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Best
>>>>>> > Wouter
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> > >commoning Mailingliste
>>>>>> > >JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>>>> > >commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>>> > >https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > commoning Mailingliste
>>>>>> > JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>>>> > commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>>> > https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> End of commoning Digest, Vol 2, Issue 65
>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> commoning Mailingliste
>>>>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> commoning Mailingliste
>>>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> commoning Mailingliste
>>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> commoning Mailingliste
> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>

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