[P2P-F] transparency issue of p2p-foundation

[Denis Postle]

Hello Michel,
It's good of you to respond so directly. I didn't intend any kind of 
challenge, I was trying to figure out how I might help and couldn't see 
how this could be done, ie how support for you could  be 
enhanced/installed/orchestrated;  I realised that I knew next to nothing 
about the Foundation. Since then I have picked up that there are four 
people in the Foundation engine room, Orsan connected me to a software 
app. page Datagraph where I posted some proposals about commons 
governance, he later mentioned that there is a discussion about the 
Foundation on Loomio which I will follow up.

You are very generous in what you say below and I am well able to rest 
with it.

Greetings
Denis
PS this is a resend the postle.net server has been down for a few days
On 22/08/2014 08:56, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> Dear Denis,
>
> you raise the transparency issue,
>
> on this list, what you see is what you get, i.e. there are indivduals, 
> with various levels of influence obtained either from within or 
> outside the list, that communicate around an issue; I have no 
> technical power, both because I don't like it and have no time for it, 
> but also actually as a conscious decision, i.e. I can't exclude anyone 
> by myself;
>
> then the p2p-foundation, well, to be frank, it's a group of people who 
> are communicating in various ways, pragmatically, and hence, it is 
> easy to feel excluded in some way, because it is not always visible .. 
> most of our communication are just list of email addresses, of 
> whatever people are most appropriate to contribute to a certain 
> project .. ; the end result is, and personally, in a network of 
> volunteers, I do not think this is a bad thing, is that it is the 
> contributors that discuss , consensually, what needs to be done ;
>
> we are now trying to be more formal, to avoid the tyranny of 
> structurelessness, this is done by using Loomio; if I have understood 
> the process well, a first phase is an open discussion, then the 
> decision tool is used for the major orientation decisions, and it then 
> moves over to the implementors to take the day to day decisions 
> amongst themselves
>
> remember, nobody is getting paid for this directly (we all have 
> indirect strategies of making a living), though kevin will likely join 
> us as first paid employee this october ..., and for people who work 
> hard for free and with limited time, it is impossible to listen for 
> ever to people who are on the sidelines thinking they have the right 
> idea of how it should be done, without doing it themselves ..
>
> if we were a membership organisation, or a coop, of course we would 
> need to do it differently and insure every member has a vote (which 
> would be a counterpart of their monetary or labor contributions)
>
> but peer production networks almost never work that way, and it has 
> been rather well studied; we are not very different from others in 
> this, except that we are too small to entertain a formally democratic 
> FLOSS Foundation
>
> but the people who complain that do not have it, should be the ones 
> building and constructing it,
>
> discussions of the list are different, here everyone has a voice 
> provided that a few social rules are adhered to,
>
> in this case, we are insisting that the rule of no personal attacks 
> and difamation are adhered too; no one wants to take away willi's 
> freedom of speech, there are millions of outlets where mutual insults 
> are the norm, and I have no issue with these freely chosen cultures of 
> discourse,
>
> but don't forget that countless progressive outlets had to fold and 
> were destroyed, because they refused to maintain their culture, such 
> as for example Indymedia accepting anti-semitism  and a slew of 
> conspiracy theorists (I have read about this without knowing the ins 
> and outs)
>
> but if that were the culture here, I would unsubscribe,
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: 
> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
>
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>
>
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