[P2P-F] open capital License?

Dante-Gabryell Monson dante.monson at gmail.com
Tue Feb 5 01:58:30 CET 2013

Thanks Apostolis.

Yes, the tool you shared can be useful to me !

as for the rest :

Its really interesting to approach the various notions of capital. ( Thanks
Michel for bringing up the topic )

It would be interesting to see / express the different forms of ( dominant
) capital in the form of a license. See it as such.

a few more pieces of a puzzle in attempts at understanding a larger picture
, and give an example in the direction heaing in the direction of an open
capital license ? :

Which are the forms of capital that derive solely from contracts ?
Or are they all some form of another of contract ( in relation to our
approach to our own health ? )

Can we break them down, into granular descriptions, and understand how they
are constructed / related ?

When understanding the more granular / monadic aspects of such contracts
which may create or preserve capital
( including for example engagements to preserve ecosystems as commons , as
a form of capital ? )
how could we enable such "open capital license" ?


Some years ago, I tried to imagine how we could apply this to monetary
tokens.  Which I essentially see as metadata, created through a debt

Money in itself seems to be only one type of capital.  Yet one which seems
to be rather central in our attention span / preoccupations ?

I tried to understand what the "awareness" was of current money, and
noticed somehow that it was, in my own interpretation, not only debt based,
but in some kind of "addicted" awareness, as interest on monetary creation
through debt / credit seemed to lead to a need to more credit creation to
expand the monetary mass.   I also noticed that certain individuals or
entities within a system may have a privileged access to credit creation,
or even simply a privileged position in terms of a transfer of such type of
money through profits... or a combination of both, in itself creating
artificial scarcity of such tokens for a majority of the population, and
abundance for a small minority, who could hoard it from the real economy ,
including in the form of a speculative economy in which such monetary mass
could be expanded, while reducing monetary flows in some "real economy" of
transactions between people, limiting inflation ( ? ) , and using such
approach to proportionally increase the power of a small minority over a
majority of individuals , when most have become dependent on a monopolistic
globalised monetary architecture to access interdependencies , value
creation, resources...

Hence, I perceive it as a hierarchical coercive system.

How to reverse such "awareness" ?

I feel like building on Michel's initial question - regarding a license.

I imagine that an intentional license , related to such metadata, could
serve as a filter for the usage of such tokens.

Better still, it may not need to be exchangeable tokens.

It could simply be metadata, created out of a variety of transactions.

This is where the netention idea , and linked data protocols, enter in the

Within such kind of contextualized metadata information systems, there may
be the potential to include the current mainstream debt based financial
but also the possibilities to circumvent undesired consequences by reducing
dependencies on such debt based system, and routing around some of its
effects.   For example, encouraging investments of hoarded surplus profits,
into contributive p2p production infrastructures, yet defining conditions
of such investment into , for example, access to use value derived from
such infrastructure, hence a variety of metadata related to such production
and transactions related to such production, yet not requiring to guarantee
property as collateral to a repayment of such debt tokens plus interest,

gradually investing into production infrastructures which can become less
dependent on the conditions ( the license ? ) of the current monetary
when interconnected through the intentional conditions ( as metadata of
transactions engaged in ) defined within a larger, more complex information
system for transactions then one limited to one specific monopolistic

It could remain open to a variety of forms of capital ( hence equipotential
? ), while each peer could choose of the transactions it wished to endorse
and engage in...   creating an emergent environment ?  And , hopefully,
depending on if it is a open license, copy contextual data and creates

ps :  got mixed up in last mail, stated that you asked the question, while
it was Michel

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:

> @flawer
> The problem with the definition that all new money/value needs to be spend
> for more projects that are "shareful" is that it doesnt account for the
> lending of value/money. That is the main mechanism with
> which a bank makes money. Someone want to start a business, shareful or
> not, the bank gives money and in exchange it wants more money in the future.
> So although the bank doesnt interfere in the business structure, it is
> able to extract wealth because it can do these things:
> a) it decides whether the tools for the project are created and by whom
> they are used.
> b) they decide the price of those tools( through lending).
> After this analysis, we see that a bank does decide what the economy
> produces. In general, the owner of money controls the economy because of
> those 2 reasons.
> Any ruleset thus has to find a way to remove those abilities from money.
> @Dante
> Maybe you should look at something like this:
> http://valnet.webfactional.com/accounting/network/24/ .
> Semantic graphs are very difficult to work with. No doubt, they are at a
> stand still for so many years.
> @Michel . I have read few of them.I dont have much time unfortunately.
> Almost all try to create new value flows and thus break the chains of
> people from the the central monetary system.
> So this is what I call a BSD license style effort.
> In other words, if someone finds it more profitable, he switches back to
> the old system.
> @all
> I am working on a ruleset myself, but my main point here is that as new
> value flows emerge,we are of dire need of a ruleset as a guide for future
> efforts.
> In contrast, the creation of peer property through peer production has
> been analyzed thoroughly.
> We need a good definition of the creation of private property through peer
> production, ie through non-exclusion.
> Value networks, specifically need such a definition.
> 2013/2/4 Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>> I wish to briefly add a point of view in response to Apostolis question :
>> Beyond more distributed forms of tokenization - token creation, token
>> exchange,... - , beyond the use of debt itself as a token,
>> I personally look forward to using the lowering of contextualization
>> thresholds to facilitate the creation of new markets / information systems
>> , new thresholds for granular and modular combinations of engagement,
>> which can be intentionally based, and in which reputation can potentially
>> play a role as non-tradable ( social ) capital, whilst enabling other
>> properties I identify as p2p, such as equipotentialit<http://p2pfoundation.net/Equipotentiality>
>> y.
>> An attempt as such social contract and resource allocation information
>> system described , for example, via this netention presentation<https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByfmjEDwh_feV1hsX1o1OVFXTlE/preview>( made by Seth )
>> and a early prototype
>> http://er.netention.org/
>> note : it does not yet have the functionalities described above, but its
>> architecture enables it through its further development, by importing for
>> example various ontologies - rdf schema, etc - ... )
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net
>> > wrote:
>>> hi Apostolis,
>>> probably not related but chris cook uses the concept of
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Capital (more via
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:OpenCapital)
>>> my material on money is here http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Moneyand the material on licenses is here
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Licensing
>>> a list of open currency related concepts:
>>>    - Open Bank Project <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Bank_Project>
>>>    - Open Book Management<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Book_Management>
>>>    - Open Capital <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Capital>
>>>    - Open Currency <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Currency>
>>>    - Open Data Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Data_Currencies>
>>>    - Open Fair Credit Standard<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Fair_Credit_Standard>
>>>    - Open Hardware Microcredit<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Hardware_Microcredit>
>>>    - Open Identity Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Identity_Currencies>
>>>    - Open Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money>
>>>    - Open Money as a Commons<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_as_a_Commons>
>>>    - Open Money Bibliography<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_Bibliography>
>>>    - Open Money Blogtalk Radio<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_Blogtalk_Radio>
>>>    - Open Money Manifesto<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_Manifesto>
>>>    - Open Money Project <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money_Project>
>>>    - Open Patent Alliance<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Patent_Alliance>
>>>    - Open Rules Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Rules_Currencies>
>>>    - Open Source Bounties<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Bounties>
>>>    - Open Source Core Banking<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Core_Banking>
>>>    - Open Source Credit Rating Agency<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Credit_Rating_Agency>
>>>    - Open Source Currency<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Currency>
>>>    - Open Source Finance Meetup Group<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Finance_Meetup_Group>
>>>    - Open Source Financial Transactions Processing<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Financial_Transactions_Processing>
>>>    - Open Source Hardware Bank<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Hardware_Bank>
>>>    - Open Source Hardware Reserve Bank<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Hardware_Reserve_Bank>
>>>    - Open Source I-Bills <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_I-Bills>
>>>    - Open Source Ratings Are Needed To Break the Ratings Agency
>>>    Oligopoly<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Ratings_Are_Needed_To_Break_the_Ratings_Agency_Oligopoly>
>>>    - Open Source Voucher Payment Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Voucher_Payment_Project>
>>>    - Open Transact <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Transact>
>>>    - Open Transactions <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Transactions>
>>>    - Open Transport Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Transport_Currencies>
>>>    - Open UDC <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_UDC>
>>>    - Open Wallet <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Wallet>
>>>    - Open Xchange <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Xchange>
>>>    - Open-Universal Digital Currency Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open-Universal_Digital_Currency_Project>
>>>    - OpenCoin <http://p2pfoundation.net/OpenCoin>
>>>    - Opensocial Virtual Currency API Proposal<http://p2pfoundation.net/Opensocial_Virtual_Currency_API_Proposal>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 11:32:08 +0200
>>> From: Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <xekoukou at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [P2P-F] open capital License?
>>> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <
>>> CAOX4E5HhTj7sT-C1g0BTc-nkoEoyMYAJ+q1+j+9Vm_GPWdnWTA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> If we define the open paradigm as the one's right to access information
>>> or
>>> resources, then what is the equivalent ,to GPL, license when it comes to
>>> resources and especially capital(infrastructure)?
>>> (When it comes to capital, open access can be a bit more restrictive, ie
>>> allowing only the consumers and producers to have access )
>>> The gpl license prohibits that subsequent releases of the code as
>>> closed-source. This is a protection mechanism that needs to be used for
>>> capital as well.
>>> Here capital is not an idea, but a material thing that either exists now
>>> or
>>> we have a promise for its existence in the future(money).
>>> Has anyone defined a license or a set of rules that need to apply to
>>> money
>>> and the existent capital so as to be called open capital?
>>> I think that we are lucking a good rule set when it comes to money.
>>> As I have said in this list many times before, inequalities can arise
>>> even
>>> in an environment where all knowledge is open source and all resources
>>> are
>>> peer governed
>>>  simply because we have small differences in abilities  and thus a
>>> difference in accumulated value(money) which if it reaches critical mass
>>> could lead again to big inequalities(since money create money).
>>> --
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
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>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Sincerely yours,
>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
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