[P2P-F] discussing the implications of the peer production license

Michel Bauwens michel at p2pfoundation.net
Sat Aug 31 09:42:19 CEST 2013 

once we have that announcement, and the coalition, we'll change the c
notice on the p2p foundation wiki!


On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Stacco Troncoso
<staccotroncoso at gmail.com>wrote:

> Oh yeah, totally Like I said, I think the best way to promote is by
> example. We'll be publishing new content from September 3rd onwards, so
> I'll make an announcement then. Later on, if we have a webpage to introduce
> the license in simple terms (and a Spanish version), we'll introduce it
> more thoroughly.
>
> I think that image-content creators whose works gets reused a lot,
> regardless of who's using it, could really benefit. We'll be sharing it
> with all our image contributors. Open Tech Forever could also be
> interested, I think.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>wrote:
>
>> Dear Stacco,
>>
>> may I suggest an announcement regarding this adoption;
>>
>>  and: I would propose a consortium of organisations adopting the PPL,
>> which the p2p-f can join
>>
>> dmytri: any other org's that could join?
>>
>> Lionel, is there any way we can formulate the progress you are making in
>> France?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Stacco Troncoso <
>> staccotroncoso at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> Great stuff. I think we can go ahead and replace the CC text widget with
>>> a text box indicating that all translated content is under a PPL license
>>> and the link to the full text.
>>>
>>> All of all collaborators are on board with the idea of switching
>>> licenses. In regards to the retroactive change, all of the republished
>>> content I've observed falls within the parameters of free use defined by
>>> the PPL, so I don't think we'll have any problems there.
>>>
>>> Very interested in the logo (maybe including the Foundation's own logo
>>> in the design?) and the projected website. Legal Spanish is far from my
>>> speciality, so I don't feel qualified to translate any of the legal text of
>>> the license, but I'll be glad to translate any FAQs, descriptions and the
>>> common deed. I'll scoop around for legal translators for the actual text of
>>> the license, maybe Carolina knows someone who's already worked on
>>> translating CC content who'd be interested?
>>>
>>> Stacco
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> this is really great news Lionel, I am very happy that things are
>>>> moving in this direction in France,
>>>>
>>>> if anything concrete advances, would be great is someone could write a
>>>> paragraph for the blog, as this will be an important milestone,
>>>>
>>>> as you know, this is a dream come true,
>>>>
>>>> also hugely important is:
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Venture_Movement
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Lionel Maurel <calimaq at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We are discussing and working on the concept of the PPL in France, in
>>>>> a group of the ShareLex initative. I guess Michel already met Anne-Laure
>>>>> Brun-Buisson, the creator of ShareLex ? Some people are interested by the
>>>>> PPL in France, especially in the field of the "Economie Sociale et
>>>>> Solidaire" (ESS).
>>>>>
>>>>> We are looking to translate the PPL in french (not a lot of work,
>>>>> because the CC-BY-NC-SA has already been translated). But we would also
>>>>> like to create a logo and to write a common deed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's something Dmytri Kleiner could be interested in. Not a
>>>>> lot of work, but a significant impact on the appropriation of the licence
>>>>> by people. A dedicated website to host the licence, the logo, the common
>>>>> deed, a FAQ and some case studies could be very nice too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will inform you on the evolution of the discussion in France about
>>>>> the PPL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lionel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/8/29 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you so much for these very clear answers Lionel, I'm sure it
>>>>>> answers Stacco's concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, in the note to me and Dmytri regarding the logo and common
>>>>>> deeds, this is beyond my own capability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I promote the PPL as an 'ideological' hack, I cannot find the
>>>>>> time to work on its actual promotion and development,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Lionel Maurel <calimaq at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bonjour,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Je vais essayer de répondre du mieux possible à ces questions, mais
>>>>>>> mon anglais n'étant pas très bon, je vais devoir le faire en français.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    In practical terms: How do we implement the Peer Production
>>>>>>>    License? That is to say, do we display it as widget on our site, much like
>>>>>>>    a CC license, or do we have to undergo some sort of formal procedure? If
>>>>>>>    so, what are the requirements?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Par rapport aux licences Creative Commons, la Peer Production
>>>>>>> Licence a une faiblesse dans le sens où elle ne dispose pas encore d'un
>>>>>>> logo et d'un "common deeds" (version résumé en langage simple qui
>>>>>>> accompagne toutes les licences CC). En l'absence de ces éléments, le plus
>>>>>>> simple est d'indiquer que vos contenus sont placés sous PPL dans les
>>>>>>> Conditions Générales d'Utilisation de votre site (CGU ou ToS). Vous pouvez
>>>>>>> aussi faire figurer cette mention à un niveau plus fin sur chaque document,
>>>>>>> sous la forme d'une note. Dans tous les cas, il faut faire un lien
>>>>>>> hypertexte vers le texte de la licence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note à l'attention de Michel et de Dmytri : il serait vraiment
>>>>>>> intéressant à mon sens de produire un logo pour la PPL et un "common deeds"
>>>>>>> afin de la rendre pleinement opérationnelle. C'est une chose à laquelle
>>>>>>> nous réfléchissons en France d'ailleurs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. What happens with the translations we’ve already published under
>>>>>>> a CC Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Normalement en effet, on ne peut pas revenir sur la décision de
>>>>>>> placer des contenus sous licence Creative Commons, sinon cela créerait trop
>>>>>>> d'insécurité juridique, surtout avec la dissémination sur Internet.
>>>>>>> Néanmoins, il faut savoir faire preuve de pragmatisme. Ici vos contenus
>>>>>>> étaient placés sous licence CC-BY-NC-SA. En passant à la PPL, vous ouvrez
>>>>>>> les possibilités de réutilisation par rapport à la CC-BY-NC-SA. Vous
>>>>>>> n'enlever des droits à personne. Au contraire, vous donnez de nouveaux
>>>>>>> droits à des tiers, puisque davantage de personnes pourront utiliser vos
>>>>>>> contenus. Dès lors, vous ne pouvez léser personne et il n'y aura personne
>>>>>>> pour venir se plaindre. Du coup, je pense que même si la licence
>>>>>>> CC-BY-NC-SA ne le permet pas stricto sensus, vous pouvez passer à la PPL
>>>>>>> sans grande difficulté. Ce serait différent si vous passiez de CC-BY-NC-SA
>>>>>>> à "Copyright All rights reserved", parce que vous restreignez alors les
>>>>>>> utilisations possibles et risquez de léser des tiers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         3. In my prior correspondence with Carolina she asked why
>>>>>>> we chose the non-commercial feature. I suppose that PPL, like the
>>>>>>> NC-Share-alike license, allows for commercial use of the material with
>>>>>>> permission from the license holder, correct?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oui, tout à fait. La PPL fonctionne sur ce point comme une CC
>>>>>>> classique. Elle signale que certains usages commerciaux sont réservés et
>>>>>>> donc soumis à l'autorisation préalable du titulaire de droits. Libre à lui
>>>>>>> ensuite d'interdire, mais aussi d'autoriser ces usages, une fois qu'on
>>>>>>> s'adresse à lui.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Voilà ce que je peux répondre sur ces questions, en espérant que
>>>>>>> cela pourra être utile et en m'excusant pour la réponse en français.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cordialement,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lionel Maurel - Calimaq
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  2013/8/29 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stacco troncoso / ah uhm of guerilla translations has a very
>>>>>>>> important practical query on the ppl, which I can't answer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping dmytri and lionel can shed light on this/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anybody else who could answer this query and should be included?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> THE QUERY
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> QUESTIONS ON THE PEER PRODUCTION LICENSE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  First of all, this license will only apply to the translated
>>>>>>>> material we create, not the originals. At any rate, every translation we
>>>>>>>> publish is done and distributed with full knowledge and permission of the
>>>>>>>> authors and original rights holders.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Questions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    In practical terms: How do we implement the Peer Production
>>>>>>>>    License? That is to say, do we display it as widget on our site, much like
>>>>>>>>    a CC license, or do we have to undergo some sort of formal procedure? If
>>>>>>>>    so, what are the requirements?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    What happens with the translations we’ve already published
>>>>>>>>    under a CC Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
>>>>>>>>    License? Is a retroactive change to PPL acceptable, in regards
>>>>>>>>    to this previously licensed material? In CC’s FAQ page, under the” What if
>>>>>>>>    I change my mind?” heading, we find: What if I change my mind? - CC
>>>>>>>>    licenses are not revocable. Once a work is published under a CC license,
>>>>>>>>    licensees may continue using the work according to the license terms for
>>>>>>>>    the duration of copyright protection. Notwithstanding, CC licenses do not
>>>>>>>>    prohibit licensors from ceasing distribution of their works at any time.
>>>>>>>>    Additionally, CC licenses provide a mechanism for licensors and authors to
>>>>>>>>    ask that others using their work remove the credit to them that is
>>>>>>>>    otherwise required by the license. You should think carefully before
>>>>>>>>    choosing a Creative Commons license. - I’m not totally clear
>>>>>>>>    about this, given that I’d like to apply the new license to all of our
>>>>>>>>    page’s content and, depending on the case, note exceptions for certain
>>>>>>>>    translations (or the images we use, which are property of the photographs
>>>>>>>>    and artists. Some of them are publishing under CC, some are not, but
>>>>>>>>    they’re always credited). I understand that anyone who’s republished our
>>>>>>>>    material while it was licensed under CC won’t be affected by the change.
>>>>>>>>    The basic questions here are: “Can I relicense the material already
>>>>>>>>    published in our page under CC as PPL?” and “What happens afterwards?”.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    In my prior correspondence with Carolina she asked why we chose
>>>>>>>>    the non-commercial feature. I suppose that PPL, like the NC-Share-alike
>>>>>>>>    license, allows for commercial use of the material with permission from the
>>>>>>>>    license holder, correct? (See: Can I still make money from a
>>>>>>>>    work I make available under a Creative Commons license?<http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Can_I_still_make_money_from_a_work_I_make_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_license.3F>
>>>>>>>>    )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My understanding of PPL is that it fosters trust among<http://es.creativecommons.org/blog/pmf/#faq_entrada_1004>peers. In the
>>>>>>>> hypothetical<http://es.creativecommons.org/blog/pmf/#faq_entrada_1004>case that a newspaper that functions as a co-op and pays all its
>>>>>>>> collaborators, decides to republish our work without any sort of monetary compensation
>>>>>>>> for us or the authors, then the license would allow them to do so.  In
>>>>>>>> <http://es.creativecommons.org/blog/pmf/#faq_entrada_1004>an event
>>>>>>>> like that, we’d consider this action to be discriminatory behaviour but, as
>>>>>>>> far as consequences are concerned, only the reputation of said newspaper
>>>>>>>> within the meritocracy of the Commons would be affected. I think that this
>>>>>>>> sort of reputation-based deterrence is very interesting, even if it lacks
>>>>>>>> any sort of legal instruments, as it can foster better relations and a
>>>>>>>> “watch each other’s backs” dynamic in regards to unethical practises within
>>>>>>>> the Commons and P2P movements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That’s all for now, Michel and friends. Carolina and I are eager to
>>>>>>>> learn more about the license. Guerrilla Translation not only wants to use
>>>>>>>> it, but to introduce it by means of example to as many people as possible once
>>>>>>>> we are sure we understand it completely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Stacco Troncoso, on behalf of Guerrilla Translation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Calimaq *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blog S.I.Lex <http://scinfolex.wordpress.com/>
>>>>>>> Profil Twitter  <http://twitter.com/calimaq>
>>>>>>> Page Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/Calimaq>
>>>>>>> Univers Netvibes <http://www.netvibes.com/calimaq#Accueil>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Calimaq *
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog S.I.Lex <http://scinfolex.wordpress.com/>
>>>>> Profil Twitter  <http://twitter.com/calimaq>
>>>>> Page Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/Calimaq>
>>>>> Univers Netvibes <http://www.netvibes.com/calimaq#Accueil>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Stacco Troncoso <http://about.me/staccotroncoso>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> - Stacco Troncoso <http://about.me/staccotroncoso>
>
>


-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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