[P2P-F] Fwd: Fw: David Harvey on marx and capital

Sun Jan 1 08:54:13 CET 2012

I should have unsubscribed, this is a test.

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you see a way out of the crisis?
>
> From what i understand, getting out of the crisis means either the
> physical destruction of capital or its devaluation through bankrupcies.
>
> For this reason, I see no way out of this if something radical is not
> done. (revolution, war, )
> 2011/12/31 Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>
>> I'm afraid you are right and this is also being echoed by samir amin,
>> michael hudson, and others,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Tere Vadén <tere.vaden at uta.fi> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a pet theory which is too simplistic and reductionist to be true
>>> or even intelligible to many, but this is it: since economic growth is
>>> not possible anymore (because of peak oil) the rich can get richer only
>>> if the poor get poorer, hence authoritarianism, hence austerity, etc;
>>> some of the old pre-20th century conditions are returning. The system is
>>> not surviving, it is mutating. If the collapse of the soviet union meant
>>> the collapse of socialism as ideology, the end of growth means the end
>>> of liberal right wing ideologies. (Fortunately, I'm not completely alone
>>> in believing this lunacy, Richard Heinberg seems to have spoken about it
>>> in the recent ASPO conference: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8573).
>>>
>>> On 11/27/11 7:58 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>> > see below via thomas greco, a commentary on harvey
>>> >
>>> > has anyone seen any good explanation of the current austerity/fleecing
>>> > strategies ... it seems to me that a systematic and radical
>>> impoverishment
>>> >   is also a problem for the survival of the system as a whole ..
>>> >
>>> > Michel
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: *Thomas Greco* <thg at mindspring.com <mailto:thg at mindspring.com>>
>>> > Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:47 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: Fw: David Harvey on marx and capital
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dear Rajni,
>>> > Thanks for the link to the review of David Harvey's book, /The Enigma
>>> of
>>> > Capital, and the crises of capitalism/. No, I've not seen the book, but
>>> > if the review is a faithful description, the book seems well worth
>>> reading.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not inclined to frame my analyses and prescriptions in terms of
>>> > competing ideologies because that leads to immediate resistance by the
>>> > true believers on one side or another. Rather, we need to encourage
>>> > people to think outside of their comfortable boxes by pointing out
>>> > implicit assumptions and evident dysfunctions, and suggesting
>>> structural
>>> > as well as policy changes that show promise of providing better
>>> outcomes.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, what constitutes a better outcome will always be a point of
>>> > disagreement based on the fundamental values, attitudes, and beliefs
>>> > that different segments of society hold (e.g., the 1% vs the 99% that
>>> > the Occupy movement has highlighted). Besides that, our desires and
>>> > expectations must ultimately adjust to the reality of our planetary
>>> > limits to physical growth.
>>> >
>>> > Based on the review, the points that I may agree or disagree with
>>> Harvey
>>> > about are inserted in red in the review below.
>>> >
>>> > *The Enigma of Capital, and the crises of capitalism, By David
>>> Harvey____*
>>> >
>>> > Review by Andrew Gamble
>>> >
>>> > Friday, 30 April 2010
>>> >
>>> > *Andrew Mellon, the US Treasury Secretary during the Great Crash of
>>> 1929
>>> > and one of America's richest men, observed that in a crisis assets
>>> > return to their rightful owners. Nothing much has changed. As the
>>> > present crisis has mutated from a banking crisis to a fiscal crisis and
>>> > a sovereign debt crisis, bonuses continue to be paid, while the people
>>> > of Greece and Iceland suffer huge cuts in jobs and services.____*
>>> >
>>> > As the head of Citibank helpfully pointed out, "Countries cannot
>>> > disappear. You always know where to find them." Once the bubbles are
>>> > burst, expectations about asset values are dashed, optimism gives way
>>> to
>>> > despair, and wealth is ruthlessly redistributed. *Capitalism survives
>>> by
>>> > purging itself of debt and loading the costs of adjustment on the weak
>>> > and the poor.____*
>>> >
>>> > [I agree, but something needs to be said about HOW it purges itself of
>>> > debt. We’ve seen very clearly in this latest cycle how the capitalists
>>> > have come away whole by pushing the debt off onto the public sector by
>>> > means of government bailouts. That has cause severe fiscal (budgetary)
>>> > problems for governments, which now are pressured to cut spending. That
>>> > is where the weak and the poor (including the “middle class”) get
>>> > fleeced and sacrificed because the cuts are typically made in social
>>> > spending and programs that promote the common good.]____
>>> >
>>> > For David Harvey, this is the latest of the great structural crises
>>> > which have punctuated the development of capitalism and which signify
>>> > that major limits have been reached to further growth. Crises on this
>>> > view are inherent in capitalism itself, and the means by which it
>>> renews
>>> > itself. Only a periodic clear-out of debt and unproductive activities
>>> > creates the basis for a further leap forward.
>>> >
>>> > Harvey is less interested in the detail of how the 2007-8 crisis
>>> > unfolded than in understanding it as a manifestation of how capitalism
>>> > works. Over the last two decades, he has become a leading exponent of
>>> > classical Marxist political economy, his work known for its exceptional
>>> > clarity and for integrating spatial categories into the theory of
>>> > capital accumulation.
>>> >
>>> > Capitalism in the last 200 years has proved itself by far the most
>>> > dynamic and productive economic system known to history, but the wealth
>>> > comes at a price, both for human beings and increasingly for the
>>> natural
>>> > environment.
>>> >
>>> > Periodically, capitalism over-expands and overshoots, encountering
>>> > limits it cannot immediately transcend. This is a system which must
>>> keep
>>> > expanding by at least 3 per cent a year. What drives it is the hope of
>>> > profit, and this impulse comes to shape all social relations as well as
>>> > nature. During booms, capital accumulates very fast, but the amount of
>>> > surplus generated becomes harder and harder to absorb. The investments
>>> > that have been made in the boom fix capital in all sorts of ways, in
>>> > buildings, cities, regions and countries, as well as in labour forces
>>> > and ways of organising production.
>>> >
>>> > After a time many of these past investments no longer yield a high
>>> > return and sometimes no return at all. This is what precipitates the
>>> > crisis. It may take the form of a profits squeeze, caused by militant
>>> > labour wresting gains from capital, or by factors depressing the rate
>>> of
>>> > profit, or by too little demand. Harvey argues that the present crisis
>>> > is particularly hard to resolve because it comes after a long period in
>>> > which real incomes in the US have stagnated, while the wealth of the
>>> > property-owning elite has soared.
>>> >
>>> > The gap between what labour was earning and what it would spend was
>>> > covered by credit. The average debt of per household, including
>>> mortgage
>>> > repayments, was $40,000 in 1980. By 2007 it was $130,000. Getting this
>>> > debt down and restarting the economy is a huge task.
>>> >
>>> > [I too have been preaching that the limits to growth have been reached,
>>> > and yes, however one might choose to characterize an economic system
>>> > (capitalist, socialist, or otherwise), there must be a periodic
>>> > “clear[ing]-out of debt and unproductive activities,” for the system to
>>> > maintain its vitality, but not necessarily to make way for further
>>> > growth.____
>>> >
>>> > I’m wondering if Harvey’s book adequately explains the phenomenon of
>>> > “expansion and overshoot,” and whether or not that would also occur
>>> > under his conception of a alternative non-Capitalist system. I’m also
>>> > wondering about the basis for his statement that, “This is a system
>>> > which must keep expanding by at least 3 per cent a year.”I’ve seen
>>> > estimates that run closer to 6%. My own belief is that the proximate
>>> > driver of continual economic growth is the compounding of interest that
>>> > is a fundamental feature of our global monetary system, and that the
>>> > surplus that is created by the economy goes largely into capital
>>> > concentration and profit-seeking reinvestment, rather than to increased
>>> > and more equitable consumption. Thus, we see starvation and want amidst
>>> > plenty.] ____
>>> >
>>> > Harvey is pessimistic that growth can be restarted without the
>>> > infliction of quite unimaginable hardships on the many of the world's
>>> > poorest people. *Capitalism survives by socialising losses and
>>> > distributing gains to private hands. Harvey devotes a large part of his
>>> > argument to show how this is done through the close ties of the state
>>> > and finance. He calls it the state-finance nexus.____*
>>> >
>>> > [Yes, this is an increasingly obvious point. I’m glad to see that
>>> Harvey
>>> > is highlighting the “*state-finance nexus.”*I trace that back to the
>>> > founding of the Bank of England in 1694, which established the pattern
>>> > of central banking and government-banking collusion that has since
>>> > spread around the world and culminated in a rather monolithic regime.
>>> > But there are cracks beginning to form.]____
>>> >
>>> > This is not a conspiracy: both sides of the relationship need one
>>> > another and support one another. There are frictions and conflicts, but
>>> > in the end they work together because this is the only system anyone
>>> > knows or thinks can be made to work. Michael Bloomberg, as Mayor of New
>>> > York, commissioned a report which declared that excessive regulation in
>>> > the US was threatening the future of the financial sector in New York.
>>> >
>>> > The financial crash of 2008 destroyed the credibility of the financial
>>> > growth model put in place after the last great capitalist crisis in the
>>> > 1970s. It has also, as Harvey notes, put a question-mark over the
>>> > continuance of US hegemony, because of the shift in the balance of the
>>> > global economy towards the rising powers of India and China.
>>> >
>>> > He thinks that the accumulated rigidities over the last cycle have
>>> > become so great that only a very fundamental restructuring can restore
>>> > the basis for renewed economic growth. But the pressure for an early
>>> > return to business as usual are very great, threatening an early return
>>> > of credit and debt as the only way to fuel the economy, and the
>>> eruption
>>> > of another crisis in a few years.
>>> >
>>> > Harvey argues that each major capitalist crisis has been worse than the
>>> > last one, and more difficult to surmount. He accepts that capitalism,
>>> > with all its resilience and inventiveness, is quite capable of
>>> > overcoming this crisis too; but he is sceptical, and believes that this
>>> > is the moment that a revived anti-capitalist movement can seize the
>>> > opportunity to put forward a realistic alternative to capitalism as a
>>> > way of organising the economy.
>>> >
>>> > [Yes, it is evident that each successive cycle is more extreme than the
>>> > last. The financial system based on interest-bearing debt is shaking
>>> > itself apart. ____
>>> >
>>> > It seems odd that he attributes “resilience and inventiveness”
>>> > to**capitalism. These are human qualities that might thrive in a
>>> variety
>>> > of circumstances. The question is how, specifically, to support them.
>>> ]____
>>> >
>>> > This is perhaps where the argument is least convincing. The
>>> > anti-capitalist left is fragmented and not particularly numerous.
>>> > Radical political responses during previous capitalist crises have
>>> often
>>> > favoured the right. The rise of China and India, both of which have
>>> > continued to grow through the recession, suggests that the fundamental
>>> > shift in the balance of the global economy is only just beginning, and
>>> > if it continues is likely to provide huge potential for growth and
>>> > absorption of surplus, provided certain political conditions are met.
>>> >
>>> > This will not be easy but is certainly possible. Marx thought that no
>>> > social order ever perishes before all the productive forces for which
>>> > there is room in it have developed. On the evidence Harvey himself
>>> > provides, capitalism still has a long way to go before that is the
>>> case,
>>> > and no gravediggers are in sight.
>>> >
>>> > [What are the physical limits to the application of those “productive
>>> > forces?” It is evident that the masses of India and China cannot
>>> > possibly achieve the levels of consumption and way of living that have
>>> > prevailed in the West. The emphasis must shift from capital
>>> accumulation
>>> > and increasing consumption to more equitable distribution and better
>>> > quality of life for all.]____
>>> >
>>> > But this book is a welcome addition to the literature on the crisis. It
>>> > provides a lucid and penetrating account of how the power of capital
>>> > shapes our world, and sets out the case for a new radicalism and a
>>> > vision of alternatives. What we need, he argues, is not just a new
>>> world
>>> > but a new communism, following the failure of the old - although he
>>> does
>>> > accept ruefully that using "communist" as a political label may not
>>> > bring instant success in the United States.
>>> >
>>> > [I guess we will need to read the book to see what Harvey has to
>>> propose
>>> > in making the “case for a new radicalism and a vision of
>>> alternatives.”]____
>>> >
>>> > /Andrew Gamble is Professor of Politics at the University of Cambridge
>>> > and author of 'The Spectre at the Feast' (Palgrave Macmillan)/
>>> >
>>> > [Annotated comments by Thomas H. Greco, Jr.]
>>> >
>>> > Thomas H. Greco, Jr.
>>> > thg at mindspring.com  <mailto:thg at mindspring.com>
>>> > Mobile phone (USA):520-820-0575  <tel:520-820-0575>
>>> > Beyond Money:http://beyondmoney.net
>>> > Tom's News and Views:http://tomazgreco.wordpress.com
>>> > Archive Website:http://www.Reinventingmoney.com
>>> > Photo gallery:http://picasaweb.google.com/tomazhg
>>> > Skype/Twitter name: tomazgreco
>>> > My latest book,"The End of Money and the Future of Civilization"  can
>>> be ordered from Chelsea Green Publishing, Amazon.com, or your local
>>> bookshop.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11/22/2011 11:37 PM, rajni bakshi wrote:
>>> >> Dear Tom,
>>> >> I stumbled upon this because of the stuff at the beginning -- that
>>> >> Jairus Banaji has been given
>>> >> an important book prize in UK. Jairus is a friend and a very respected
>>> >> marxist scholar.
>>> >>
>>> >> The speech by last year's winner seems important.....he talks about
>>> >>  capital and money.
>>> >>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU
>>> >> <
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&feature=player_embedded&v=QbOUCLYZVBU
>>> >
>>> >> And a link to an article by David Harvey
>>> >>
>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-enigma-of-capital-and-the-crises-of-capitalism-by-david-harvey-1958010.html
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Rajni
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
>
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
>
>
>
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