[P2P-F] Fw: Fw: Can "Printing" Money Save Economies? The Answer, Yes, and No....

Tue Sep 27 12:08:58 CEST 2011

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: "ideasinc at ee.net" <ideasinc at ee.net>
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 16:26
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Can "Printing" Money Save Economies? The Answer, Yes, and No....

Tadit,

       You are right... what is presented here is a brief "article" which I quickly wrote ...and yes, it is superfiicial. It was never intended to be a full authorative account but merely a stimulus for debate, and possible alternative interpretations, and possilbe "corrections" of one sort, or another. Hopefully, others might join in to challenge myself, or you, or indeed, the both of us.....

Cheers...

Robert S.

From: "ideasinc at ee.net" <ideasinc at ee.net>
To: robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>; P2P Foundation mailing list <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 13:55
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fw: Can "Printing" Money Save Economies? The Answer, Yes, and No....

Please, excuse, and some of the text is partial and misleading. This objection should not be taken in an ad hominen intent. The British had at least one printing press operating on a ship in the New York harbor busily counterfeiting the Continentals and then putting them into circulation. So no, the Continental Congress's use of the Continentals did not produce inflation, but the British counterfeiting operation did. Dys-information regarding monetary practices and history is a well established tactic and it usually arrives in the form of Pop-economics funded by the banking cartel to preserve their monopolistic franchise. Brown is a popular and clear example of this process. The differences between the monetary policies of the US Union as compared to the monetary policies of the Southern Confederacy is a much better example. Generally Zarlenga's book can serve as an antidote. I believe that Abba Lerner did extensive research into the details of the
 economics of the US Confederacy which as a confederacy was not even a sovereignty based process, and actually close to the present EMU process. So much for looking into history to find more than a simple reflection of present presumptions.

Regarding the "legality" of sovereign governments printing their own currency it is actually the standard, except that we have been led to believe that it is the franchise of privately owned banking cartel is the only "real" and accepted process, which is straight away false. No, it is not a legitimate subject of research, unless the details of MMT are declared by conflation and misrepresentation to be falsified, or if the intent is to sustain the privatized franchise or to re-invent MMT under a different branding. Zimbabwe is frequently pulled out as a bad example of the use of the sovereign use of currency, while simultaneously ignoring the massive incompetence and self dealing of that government. If there is an interest in a different slant on the hyper-inflation hyper-ventilation try this article.

http://www.economics.arawakcity.org/node/233

While I appreciate in principle the P2P model deeply, it has to involve some level of rigorous discourse and examination. Despite the popularity of Ellen Brown, her material continues to play to a strategy of persuasion rather than analysis based upon informing facts, practices, and history. I did a close review of her "Money As Debt" for the AMI at one point and it is primarily a product of persuasion, not scientific in any serious sense. Her personal history was that previously she, as an attorney, specialized in writing briefs. That process boils down to picking a conclusion and a few key premises and then finding precedents which appear to validate the targeted conclusions. It is a rhetorical process to win an argument, and has little to do with on the ground history of facts. At one point Randall Wray offered to tutor Brown when she passed through Kansas City. Mo. promoting her book and self. She declined by not responding at all. This is how
 default paradigms get reproduced in an seemingly endless process.

Tadit

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:07:04 -0400, robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 12:54
> Subject: Can "Printing" Monye Save Economies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If for whatever reasons governments cannot pay off their debts one way of achieving economic stability is to "print" it en masse!! This is not ofcourse a good debt concellation/reduction plan (!) as it could lead to serious inflation, or even hyperinflation.....but it can work..if not  too much money is created by governments. Something like this could ultimately save the Euro if it occurs on a large enough scale.
> 
> In pre-revolutionary America colonists found it very difficult to raise funds in the various States they created. So, they resorted to the printing press. Quite often this worked but not always (ref. Ellen Brown/Web of Debt). Infact, the American War of Independence was funded by printing money. This money was known as the Continentals but it ultimately lead to serious inflation. However, it is claimed that the Brits had been "flooding" the money supply with fake copies. The same claim was also made about the Assignats created during the French Revolution (ref. Zarlenga, and his key book on money). The American Civil War was funded by Lincoln with his Greenbacks notes created by the then existing government. This did not lead serious inflation as far as we know...The Russian Revolution was largely funded in a like manner though there is some talk about some capital being borrowed by private foreign commercial banks.
> 
> It appears too that Hitlers miracle economic "revolution" leading to WII was due to simply printing money but with strong price controls in place on many products. Apparently, the same goes for the funding of the Vietnam War when President Johnson admitted that it could not be financed by taxation because the war was  so unpopular .......This is a big subject, and no doubt other examples have not been included here (notably Zimbabwe!!).
> 
> 
> There are a number of articles about Hitler "printing" money on the internet along with the Vietnam War (plus the  Assignats, Greenbacks, et cetera, et cetera).  As far as I understand it governments cannot legally create money electronically en direct into  the economy. However, it is not fully  clear whether they can still print it "legally". To very limitedextent this occurs but if huge amounts were to  be involved this might require somekind of legal arrangement. This is still subject to research.
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/#pq=hitler+and+monetary+reform&hl=en&sugexp=tsh&cp=19&gs_id=20&xhr=t&q=hitler+prints+money&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=hitler+prints+money&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92910b6b81417d8f&biw=1024&bih=585
> 
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/#pq=hitler+prints+money&hl=en&sugexp=tsh&cp=40&gs_id=3f&xhr=t&q=vietnam+president+johnson+printing+print+money&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=vietnam+president+johnson+printing+print+money&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92910b6b81417d8f&biw=1024&bih=585
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