[P2P-F] Fwd: Co-Owning the Physical Layer

Mon Mar 14 17:55:16 CET 2011

Sorry to be a bother, but this post has a typo:

>> Obviously you do send yourself a bill in the mail

Should read

>> Obviously you do NOT send yourself a bill in the mail

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Michel Bauwens
<michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com>
> Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Co-Owning the Physical Layer
> To: building-a-distributed-decentralized-internet at googlegroups.com
> Cc: suresh2323 at gmail.com, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>, Robert
> Steele <robert.david.steele.vivas at gmail.com>, Mark Petz
> <ravenwyn at gmail.com>, videobridgebuilders at globalvillages.org
>
>
> Patrick's description of ownership and co-ownership of the physical layer of
> the internet is quite clear.
>
> Of course you can run any program you want on your own network, you can
> exchange files with your neighbors, you can, in other words, enjoy the
> fruits of what you own.
>
> Perhaps for some time in the beginning, those co-operatives (or whatever we
> call them) of co-owners of the physical network infrastructure will wish to
> connect to other such co-operatives that are out of reach of their physical
> network infrastructure and they may decide to rent, from an internet service
> provider, a broadband connection to be shared among the users of the
> network. They would all chip in to pay for that connection as a group, and
> they would use it to reach peers who are too distant, or to use services on
> the "traditional" internet. They might, in co-operation with other user
> groups, eventually take over a failing service provider and run it under
> their own collective steam. Everything would get much cheaper (no need to
> make profit) and probably more reliable as well, as potential points of
> failure of the network get distributed to numerous nodes, each one run by
> someone who's responsible for its good functioning.
>
> Whether in the interim of time between building a local net of connectivity
> and taking over or establishing a provider of long distance connectivity,
> the co-operative's co-owners will collectively rent a broad band connection,
> or will decide to share several of their existing connections with the rest
> of the co-operative, makes no difference.
>
> The end result will be a user-owned and user-maintained network that
> provides secure, stable, resilient connectivity between peers.
>
> Sepp
>
>
>
> "The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"
>
> http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/
> http://www.laleva.org
> http://blog.hasslberger.com/
> http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger
> http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
>
> .
>
> On Mar 12, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Patrick Anderson wrote:
>
>> Suresh Fernando wrote:
>>>
>>> what you are saying is that most exchanges
>>> of goods and services are not sales
>>
>> The goods are not sold, AND they are not exchanged.
>>
>> This is easy to see for a single owner, and probably
>> nobody will dispute the idea that the owner of an
>> Avocado tree - even if he pays another to harvest
>> that fruit, does not *buy* those Objects because he
>> owns them already - as a side-effect of his owning
>> the Sources (the tree, land and water rights).
>>
>>
>>
>> This Mode of Production applies to all industries.
>>
>> We, the people, can co-own the internet as clusters
>> of peers who invest for the purpose of receiving
>> that connectivity without paying more than cost.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Imagine you have several computers within your
>> home that you want to have connected together.
>>
>> You are not connecting to anything outside of your
>> house, but are just creating an internal network.
>>
>> You buy the wires and routers and maybe hire
>> someone to install and configure that equipment.
>>
>> You must also pay any other costs such as the
>> electricity and any sort of upkeep those Sources
>> require to keep them operational.
>>
>> Obviously you do send yourself a bill in the mail
>> every month and then pay that bill back to yourself.
>>
>> This is so obvious it may be too boring to consider.
>>
>> But bear with me for a few more seconds, as it
>> becomes very interesting as we scale this network
>> to more and more users.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Now imagine you talk to your neighbor about your
>> new internal network and you both decide it would
>> be fun to run a wire between your houses to share
>> files and be connected for other reasons.
>>
>> You both pitch-in to buy the wires and probably the
>> neighbor pays for the router that will sit in his house.
>>
>> You must pay all of these initial costs, and continue
>> to pay the costs of electricity (until you finally build
>> or buy a photo-voltaic array...).
>>
>> Now, there is no reason for each of you to *buy* that
>> connectivity from your collective self.  You just pay
>> the costs and that is it.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Now comes the part that for some reason is confusing
>> to most people.
>>
>> Imagine your neighbor also connects to *his* neighbor
>> and you to another, and those to more, until there are
>> hundreds and then thousands and even possibly
>> millions and billions of people connected.
>>
>> *That* intranet/internet would be owned buy the users
>> of that service.
>>
>> They must pay all the real costs of being connected,
>> but cannot pay Profit, since they are not buying that
>> service from anyone - but own it already as a side-
>> effect of their owning the Sources of those Objectives.
>>
>>
>>
>>> How, in the transition to this model are portions
>>> in the Sources (of production I assume) allocated?
>>
>> Simply according to the % of ownership.
>
>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
>