[P2P-F] a new type of platform?

Tue Jul 19 06:00:40 CEST 2011

personally I think that while the OSE project is idealistic and technically
interesting, its also totalitarian, naive and a dangerous distraction from
existing social systems, craft movements and appropriate technology

its a kind of utopian new age totalitarianism, with a digital fabrication
and software development festish... if you cant model it, design it, it
doesnt exist

real-life just doesn't work like that, you might be able to insulate
yourself from that if you've got a stream of volunteers, a large number of
donors etc, but really it only works for those principals at the core

the problem isn't a design problem, it's a social and political one

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Devin Balkind
<devin at sarapisfoundation.org>wrote:

> Ben.  The free/libre/opensource movement needs to communicate more
> strategically with the public: marketing materials, user-friendly design,
> branding, apparel, music, parties etc.  We also need complete narratives.
> One reason I was so drawn to OSE<http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html>is that the project had such a complete story that fits within a comfortable
> narratives: high-tech homestead, DY farming, etc.  A friend told me last
> night how she thought the concept of 'recycling' has prepared the public to
> understand open source and that people wouldn't be able to comprehend the
> message five years ago.  So yes, I'm interested in marketing the
> free/libre/opensource movement to the mainstream public and would love to
> connect about this issue.
>
> On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Benjamin Brownell <solaureum at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>>
>> I respect the committed work at knowledge centers like the Land Institute,
>> and P2PF here. I met Wes Jackson 10 or 12 years ago and was really awed by
>> his mild, strong and principled demeanor, doing something very different in
>> and for 'the heartland' of US and our pastoral production paradigms. And
>> there is certainly proof-of-concept scattered about in coop and other forms,
>> worldwide. I've visited a range of experimental sites and parleyed with many
>> outstanding individuals and groups on the roads to integrally sound human
>> existence. I've indulged my own vision for a safe sane supportive space,
>> through land-based community studies and participation over several years
>> and ecoregions, with the aim to share compelling stories in a kind of improv
>> road-show and online diary (and tracking what others have done in this
>> regard). I am an impatient person, and we are faced with urgent, growing,
>> challenges. Even stepping back to a more academic/historical view, there's a
>> lot of repatterning and propagation to carry out quickly. I just don't see
>> the open knowledge program hitting home on its own--even missionary zeal has
>> only afforded an approximately linear outreach. Net tech is a key new part
>> of the program, but there still seems a large quantum barrier before the
>> mainstream picks up. This is a competitive cultural evolution, and like it
>> or not in important ways we're all effectively one culture now, float or
>> flunk. That culture has leverage points though, if we look close at how it
>> has been seduced and constrained toward current dysfunctions. This can be
>> transverse-engineered.
>>
>>
>> Let's posit that there is a potential for tremendous demand/appreciation
>> growth across demographics for sustainable culture forms that are not
>> unrecognizable from within current system. Let's agree that the more people
>> we can see heading in that general direction, shifting their attention,
>> their inquiry, action and investment, the better for all. Let's say we don't
>> have a half-century to watch this unfold 'organically' (not that I have any
>> rigorous forecasts here, but certainly there's risk of agonizing sloth and
>> stickiness). I see a challenge and opportunity to co-opt the mechanisms of
>> market promotion for good. This is in fact selling people on 'something they
>> didn't even know they needed' and yet it's also a product which,
>> experientially, can 'sell itself' too--once it reaches people where they are
>> at. That's the crux really, raising visibility and viability and fecundity
>> of alternatives, in a competitive, contaminated, cultural landscape. This
>> has a lot to do with money, media, and make-believe.
>>
>>
>> The discussion gets ethically queasy in a hurry, and if you take it all
>> that seriously, it's probably going to force you to look away and stick with
>> familiar staid method. It's beyond serious--it's the future of everything we
>> identify with; but in a way this is also a game, and I suggest that the real
>> results we get from playing enlightendly within the rules for a new set of
>> goals, are definitive. Also, I'm not here to connive and convince anyone
>> about ends justifying means, I want to present a personal perspective and a
>> way forward that makes clear sense to who I am and what my unique background
>> could provide for a powerful parallel track of transition, one that I do
>> believe at this point is critical. If it adds up to some interest or seems
>> worthy of strategic evaluation, please continue to engage.
>>
>>
>> I am writing out more of the ideas that come up for me in contemplation
>> here, and some features in the emerging web-world that hold promise. I'd
>> really like to have a live chat and sketch session on this range of topics
>> with any/all of you soon. Let me first perhaps gather some instructive links
>> to share for a better image of new tactics at work in some of the ways I
>> imagine...I'm still away from my regular workspace a day or two, but will
>> update soon!
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > copied to the list for any extra discussants ...
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Benjamin Brownell <
>>> solaureum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, thank you Michel, I could use a bit more discussion on the side
>>> with this! I believe I have connected briefly with Nicholas (of
>>> Permaculture.coop yes?) and mean to indicate his projects in the piece. Let
>>> me keep fitting in some specific ideas/applications/examples to give a more
>>> complete picture in a couple of days...any thoughts welcome although I am in
>>> poor contact for the weekend ahead mostly.
>>> >> Sam, Steve, Nick hello--I haven't got much personal context to share
>>> as introduction at the moment ('profile') which is maybe why I'm thinking so
>>> hard about cultural reconfig towards more amenable circumstance...but wide
>>> backgrounding in media, community, design, science, spirit, sport; and
>>> speculation :) You might intuit some things from my twitte stream at v17us
>>> though.
>>> >> Happy to expand in chat or do a little co-writing/drawing with anyone
>>> interested! Pac Time, US skype:sola2b
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my humble opinion, if you are truly interested in Permaculture
>>> approaches, the first best group to connect with is
>>> http://www.landinstitute.org/
>>>
>>> If you are interested in building community based agricultural
>>> enterprises around permaculture, that can work now in the existing
>>> ecology, check http://www.organicvalley.coop/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> hi Benjamin,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> this promises to be very interesting,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think they are at least some people that share your concerns of
>>> marrying eco-agriculture, with p2p social systems, and that can scale
>>> through open design cooperation ...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I hope you don't mind I put some people in cc that have been active
>>> in the field,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Michel
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Benjamin Brownell <
>>> solaureum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Michel, thank you for the response--very fair points. I have allowed
>>> some time to continue processing these ideas (and
>>> implications/applications), and begun a more focused article suggesting
>>> opportunities for integration of the new peer IT capabilities with healthy
>>> surplus-oriented food production. A complicated subject that still ties into
>>> many others...but one I feel is not getting adequate attention as the real
>>> foundation (and weakpoint) of transition to stable social systems. Anyhow,
>>> I'm still pulling things together, but if you'd like to look at some starter
>>> paragraphs and a diagram to see if it may be more on track for publication,
>>> here they are:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Sufficiency Alert
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Please let’s come to the table. Subsistence is basic. Stable primary
>>> production of safe complete foods is severely lagging in the larger play for
>>> a peer-oriented economy at present, and this ‘pinch point’ is a clear target
>>> of exploitation and mismanagement by new and old malignant control
>>> structures. Agricultural land is bubbling on international markets now;
>>> water, genomic and sundry ecocidal shenanigans are spreading. Demand for
>>> food is non-negotiable, and trumps all kinds of ethical, democratic,
>>> conscientious preference:  without viable alternatives in place, industrial
>>> agri-facture is more omnipotent than oil.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Models for sustainable transition bifurcate around the challenge of
>>> current centralizations in society, advocating towards equally fanciful (in
>>> scaling) extremum of dark/bright green, where food is either radically
>>> re-localized and re-personalized (think homestead + barter), or production
>>> is further concentrated in efficient enclosed modular sun-fueled terrariums,
>>> perhaps as a sort of next-gen municipal service. Both routes are
>>> fundamentally challenged by under-acknowledged economic realities, and the
>>> grand chaordic system that is human culture.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> What kind of realistic middle road could we open up? I want to
>>> sketch a program for rapidly scaling polyvictual production centers within
>>> current land use/tenure and market regulations, as an agile catalyst of
>>> higher-order peer economics for resilient diversity. Permaculture is an
>>> excellent application framework, tried and true (and intentionally evolving)
>>> over 30 years in a range of circumstance. But as founder Bill Mollison has
>>> noted, it’s intrinsic sufficiency is paradoxically dampening to economic
>>> activity and integration with larger systematics. It is a salubrious
>>> containerized steady state, rather in line with ‘dark green’ outlook, above.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Permaculture, transition, global/eco-villaging, human-scale
>>> development, are all sound models that hold up well in practice. They are
>>> scalable, but they’re not meant to scale--it is not a built-in property,
>>> they are cultural introverts. As opt-in (/out) ethical leisure-fests, they
>>> are in fact self-marginalizing and proto-apocalyptic from the median
>>> standpoint. Culture is a competitive field, where presently the old rules
>>> are perceptibly moribund. This is an immense opportunity to creatively
>>> expand play. But how to build bridges and hold hands with a vastly inertial
>>> society, and truly lead forward? There has got to be a rich and accessible
>>> surplus from the new territory, in conventional terms, and a reciprocal
>>> value/appreciation towards the old. We need liquid capital, and a dummified
>>> ROI!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> hi Ben,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I"m generally an easy editor as long as the piece is readable,
>>> which your piece is,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> however, if there is a main thesis, I feel it is a bit to
>>> elliptically described, so perhaps somewhere, perhaps as an intro paragraph,
>>> you should make sure that your main point is summarized; I'd also like to
>>> know as reader, what new things this new wave of platforms is bringing to
>>> the table that wasn't there before?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I think it should have a more catchy title as well,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> and finally, that last word, is that on purpose, or a type:
>>> revaluolation!
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Benjamin Brownell <
>>> solaureum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Curious if you have looked at this yet? I can understand if it is
>>> not solid enough for Foundation blog, or even for easy feedback...but let me
>>> know if you have some idea to proceed. I will keep exploring directions to
>>> bridge collectivism into the 'ordinary' - obese societal production
>>> infrastructures...and underlying values.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Hi Michel, I've collected some thoughts in a doc here, if you
>>> want to take a look:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10BgjvyNuie_1oMtkb4Li9ZVzAUSei_1uwivvzkz15fU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=COfC6ZMG
>>> >>>>>>> It's kind of far reaching and preachy, I couldn't help...but if
>>> there are just a couple parts you would prefer to get more detail on, and
>>> leave the rest for me to put elsewhere, let me know--no problem!
>>> >>>>>>> I hope it can lead to a bit more discussion, and then some wiki
>>> editing, and even solid tests and steps..
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
>>> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >
>>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >
>>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Sam Rose
>>> Hollymead Capital Partners, LLC
>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>> http://hollymeadcapital.com
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net
>>> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
>>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>>
>>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Devin Balkind
> Director, Sarapis Foundation
> devin at sarapisfoundation.org
> @devinbalkind
>
>
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