[P2P-F] [Commoning] new capitalism and commoning

Massimo De Angelis commoning at gmail.com
Thu Feb 10 12:16:01 CET 2011


Dear Michel

please, don't play the victim, there are two to dance, and you seem be  
playing at your own tune all the time. A brief top-of-the-head list on  
my part: you accused Martin to "equate the zapatistas use of  
cyberspace with that of imperial forces" (31st Dec) as soon as he  
makes a *systemic* argument about the material impact of the  
"abundance" logic of cyberspace, now, that is smearing; you portray me  
as some anti-cyberspace weirdo by patronising me about software being  
"enabler", as if we disagree about such obvious point, and instead  
refusing to engage with the critical point I continuously raise about  
the fact that enabling goes both ways, for commons but also for capital;
and last but not least, you publicly and eagerly follow up my  
suggestions to move forward productively together and discuss about  
crisis in Greece or other places from the perspective of commons, but  
at the same time you send emails to your greek friends warning them I  
am a sectarian always looking for a fight while saying "massimo is  
part of the radical set that always judges others to be coopted, and  
always calling for struggle, with little regard for constructive  
altenatives, and also little regard of whether a struggle can actually  
win ... People like him, and his associate martin pedersen usually  
like to act as troublemakers during conferences and such ... . "

Now, that is behind the back smearing that truly makes me sick in the  
stomach! If only you knew the type of people I deal with any single  
day in my community work to construct  alternatives, you would be  
ashamed to even mention the word "sectarian" to me!

Obviously, it is also a question of trust here and not just a question  
of house rules. Since trust is broken, I propose we cool it on this  
topic, while continue discussing on a different place and context in  
the hope a different healing atmosphere may develops.

Massimo

On 10 Feb 2011, at 10:20, Michel Bauwens wrote:

> I don't know what to say to this Neal,
>
> direct ad hominem attacks are easy to spot and can be moderated away,
>
> the use of irony and hostile interpretations are a more subtle form  
> of intellectual intimidation
>
> I can only say, being on the receiving end more than others, that  
> I'm not the only one, and have received email letters from others  
> complaining about this, people who feel explicitely intimated to  
> contribute out of fear of similar treatment, and having it  
> experienced themselves already
>
> I don't know the rules of the  commoning  list, where I'm a guest  
> like others, but the unwritten rules of the p2p foundation list are  
> broad enough to allow it, even though it makes me uncomfortable and  
> keeps other people away from participating, who unlike me, are wiser  
> to stay outside the firing line,
>
> personally, it makes me sick in the stomach, and I will probably  
> never get used to it, but since I'm one of the parties to this  
> exchange, I'll abstain from any proposals
>
> my earlier proposal to Martin is to consider that my attempts at  
> creating a dialogue are not directed to him, since they only provoke  
> his hostility; I can also try to abstain from responding to Martin,  
> though of course, in case of multiple dialogue between different  
> persons, that may be difficult
>
> of course, that does not help others who may have the same  
> experiences and feelings
>
> sometimes, you learn from your critics, and that is really good,
>
> but here, I have learned a lot from Martin and a good friend of his,  
> that I'm intend on imposing internet infrastructures on local  
> communities ????, that I oppose or deny the political views of  
> indigenous communities ???, that I have a blind faith in IBM ???,  
> and that I am totally gullible as far as the ideas of free software  
> hackers ???. These are four lies, and just the recent ones I  
> remember, and the truth being the opposite, I have not learned  
> anything useful from such attacks, but find it profoundly disturbing  
> to have to deal with such distortions so frequently. I would wish it  
> to stop and have respectful correspondents, but as to how to achieve  
> this, I don't know.
>
> As far as my own behaviour is concerned, yes I have been overly  
> reactive to it, and would wish that I could just let it wash away,  
> and not respond reactively, which continues the cycle, but I'm  
> pretty sure I have never initiated any similar personal attacks
>
> Michel
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Neal Gorenflo <neal at shareable.net>  
> wrote:
> Dear kind folk, the health of this intellectual commons depends on  
> civility. My question is what mutual agreements do we need to keep  
> this commons healthy? -Neal
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> Dear Martin,
>
> I 'get' your irony and  implied condescension for the hacker and  
> free software community, those poor unconscious folks who lack the  
> true awareness,
>
> have a look at Hacking Capitalism from Johan Soderbergh if you have  
> not read it yet, perhaps you'd see that there are a bit of  
> thoughtful hackers out there
>
> Please be assured, I"m going to abstain to disturb you in your  
> commanding intellectual heights in the future, this has been my last  
> attempt to try to have a civil discussion about perspectives that  
> differ from your absolute certainties,
>
> In the future, please consider that my messages are in no way  
> directed to you, I acknowledge from now on your immense superiority  
> and apologize for the unthoughtful intrusion that have drawn your  
> ire and irony and disturbed your peace of mind
>
> my sincere hope is that you would publish your Collected Writings as  
> a lasting gift for humanity, in these dark times,  your  
> Enlightenment is sorely needed,
>
> from the department of Pedersenian irony, which has one an extra  
> convert
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:24 AM, j.martin.pedersen <m.pedersen at lancaster.ac.uk 
> > wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree. I was being simplistic. Let us go with what hackers  
> want -
> their political analysis seems sound.
>
> My apologies to the list for suggesting otherwise.
>
> On 08/02/11 21:10, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > the situation is a lot  more complex than that
> >
> > many different corporate players contribute to Linux, and the Linux
> > Foundation consists for example of different players
> >
> > though 75% of Linux contributors are paid, 25 % are still volunteers
> >
> > I've heard from free software developers that a substantial number  
> of IBM
> > Linux workers can self-determine the areas they contribute to,  
> depending not
> > just on the corporate needs of IBM
> >
> > I have yet to hear strong, or even weak, critiques of free software
> > developers towards the general attitude of IBM in this matter,  
> though they
> > have 'specific' critiques about specific actions; in general, I  
> think the
> > opinions of those knowledge workers directly involved in such  
> projects,
> > should be taken into account
> >
> > of course, the corporatisation of a commons is a matter of  
> concern, and
> > changes the rules of the game, but it remains a matter of  
> community vs.
> > corporate dynamics, not at all a simple and straight enclosure and
> > programmed defeat, but a dynamic co-adaptation and struggle;  
> nevertheless,
> > it is a commons that continues to grow and create value for  
> society; that
> > creates sustainability and social reproduction for a very large  
> fraction of
> > contributors; the overwhelming majority of free software workers  
> considers
> > this important progress, not an enclosure in which they lost
> >
> > nevertheless, this is why open source communities should ideally  
> strive
> > towards the creation of independent entities, use a logic of  
> preferential
> > attachment towards corporate entities that maximally share commons  
> values,
> > and fight for community autonomy in the governance of such  
> commons; it's a
> > construction and a struggle, not a fixed and idealized situation  
> of total
> > defeat
> >
> > your analysis would suggest that voluntary contributors that can't  
> make a
> > living, is a superior situation where 75% percent of workers can  
> make a
> > living, an analysis and appreciation not shared by said commoners
> >
> > free software workers do not share your ironic idealization of  
> IBM, but they
> > appreciate a social compact that reflects a current balance of  
> power that is
> > not experienced as something wholly negative, but as a realistic  
> advance in
> > the view of current circumstances; wnen this compact is broken, they
> > frequently react, and frequently win these conflicts (see
> > http://delicious.com/mbauwens/P2P-Conflicts); commoners aware of
> > contradictions within the present political economy also create  
> their own
> > autonomous cooperatives (http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Software_Cooperatives 
> )
> > and actively propose alternatives (such as the Venture Communism of
> > Telekommunisten)
> >
> > Our own p2p.coop is in process of adopting the latter's peer  
> production
> > license, which creates a commoners-only commons, i.e. an active  
> and mutually
> > supportive counter-economy; however, it comes at the price of a  
> much slower
> > growth of said commons, and actually 'closes' the commons to a  
> significant
> > degree; there is a real irony in that a real commons operating  
> purely on
> > commonist principles, is open to appropriation by capital, while a  
> closed
> > commons has a non-commercial clause which prohibits such  
> appropriation
> >
> > in such a context, a conclusion like, No commons without  
> commoning, no IBM
> > involvement without enclosure, would appear to deny such  
> complexities; in
> > fact, commoning and enclosure can co-exist in complex and  
> paradoxical ways,
> > in which the advantage of the one is not always a zero-sum game  
> leading to
> > the loss of another
> >
> > which why I prefer the paradoxical conclusion: no real enclosure  
> without
> > real enclosure, and no enclosure without the majority of commoners
> > experience such enclosure; of course such a conclusion would  
> warrant that we
> > take the experience and points of view of such workers seriously
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:51 PM, j.martin.pedersen <
> > m.pedersen at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/02/11 12:14, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> >>> so does IBM and at the same time, it is also strengthening
> >>> the free software commons.
> >>
> >> On the premise that there are no commons without commoning, IBM  
> does not
> >> strengthen the software commons.
> >>
> >> Rather, IBM converts the (re)production of the *resource* that  
> software
> >> commoners have created/established into a matter of wage labour.
> >>
> >> Command over wage labour - and the means of production required to
> >> capitalise on it - are thus used to subsume control of what was
> >> previously a commons, - a process also known as enclosure. This  
> is the
> >> first step. They claim ownership, by acquiring decision-making  
> powers,
> >> by claiming de facto leadership of the organisation (and future
> >> direction) of the resource. Software - like most things - is  
> movement,
> >> and IBM moves it in a direction away from common ground.
> >>
> >> Due to way in which the GPL sits on the fence, this is possible  
> without
> >> the immediately apparent destruction of the commons. Hence, for the
> >> uncritical observer it might appear as if IBM are adding to the  
> commons,
> >> but their interaction with the commons actually results in the
> >> minimisation/marginalisation of commoners in the development of the
> >> commons: they are rendered marginal: they may still play with the  
> code,
> >> i.e. the resource, but their commoning is ever less significant  
> in the
> >> development of the resource, while waged labour and corporate  
> planning
> >> increasingly determines the trajectory of the resource.
> >>
> >> No commons without commoning, no IBM involvement without enclosure.
> >>
> >> Unless, of course, we say that IBM is such a nice trustworthy  
> outfit
> >> that like our Open Source friends at Google "do no evil"(TM) and  
> who
> >> would never help computing another holocaust.
> >>
> >> m
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> http://commoning.wordpress.com
>
> "...I thought we were an autonomous collective..."
>
>
>
> -- 
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> --
>
> Neal Gorenflo | Publisher, http://Shareable.net | 415.867.0429
>
>
>
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