[P2P-F] michigan developments

Thu Apr 28 19:37:45 CEST 2011

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sam,
>
> issues of power seem part of every social movement, but perhaps they are
> heigthened in party-political structures, as you seem to suggest,
>
> I hope your own experiment will show a way forward that marries political
> efficicay and a way to avoid the  issues you are highlighting,
>
> however, I don't think I agree that these dynamics are what caused the fall
> of the greens in michigan, since they appear in every political party, and
> many of them are successfull even with such dynamics,
>
> so my hunch is the problem was another one,
>
> Michel
>

I think the dynamics, coupled with the lack of literacies of effective
and trust based participation seemed to be the biggest problem. In
other areas of the world and other cultures, the dynamics may emerge,
but people are able to sort through them and move on. Here it seems
with new political parties that there is a pathology that attracts a
bad element, who co-opt and hijack. Many of the new party efforts seem
to never recover from this. It may just be a part of our culture here.

> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Michel Bauwens
>> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > thank you Sam,
>> >
>> > my own task, but I have not made tremendous progress, was to be to map
>> > out
>> > commons -oriented policy proposals that are emerging,
>> >
>> > the Pirate Party also has an interesting approach,  based on 8
>> > principles
>> > which when combined, given an indication of how a principled policy
>> > would
>> > look like, see the falkvinge blog for that
>> >
>>
>> Back in 2000 election, we had the Green Party emerge very strongly
>> here in Michigan. Then, in my opinion, as often happens here in the US
>> with efforts that start out as more egalitarian and progressive, the
>> initiative of the Green Party was quickly overwhelmed by people who
>> saw it as a platform to push their own quest for celebrity, or
>> personal agendas, or quests for power and authority over others. The
>> Green Party of Michigan then quickly fell apart around 2001. I think
>> that the internet actually helped to fuel *both* the rapid growth
>> *and* the rapid deterioration here. The "commons" of people's time and
>> energy and goodwill, and trust, were quickly sapped, co-opted and
>> wasted by people who wanted to put their agendas, and their insistence
>> that people "do it my way" above the greater goals of most of the
>> people involved. Internet email lists gave them an around the clock
>> platform to pump out propaganda, dominate discussions, and even harass
>> people.
>>
>> It is for this reason in part that I am compelled to seek a non-party
>> route for progressives here in Michigan. Sure, we can work with
>> existing parties. However, investing energies into putting the party
>> and platform above people and their actual problems tends to
>> consistently attract a really destructive element. So, I think a key
>> here is trust first. Each participant has a way to work out trust with
>> the others. if there is any party platform, let it be a *trust*-based
>> platform. Technology really is not the full answer here, either.
>> Neither is full answer community currency, nor open source hardware or
>> software (although these are in my opinion components towards an
>> effective shift in a positive direction that can help the majority of
>> people struggling here). The problem is within the minds of people. We
>> here in Michigan need to ***learn how to finally build real
>> relationships of trust*** over and above anything else.  Maybe
>> technologies can help, but human learning trumps technology here.
>> (this email will be re-worked to be part of the blog post). Trust,
>> real empathy and compassion for other people, and a positive insight
>> that there is a path towards resolving the existing problems is the
>> most effective focus. So, I am really committed to the idea of
>> rejecting creating a new political party in favor of creating a
>> permanent effort for peer to peer political advocacy, learning,
>> re-ignition of local connections of trust and ethical wealth creation,
>> and this effort can collaborate and lend power to existing political
>> parties that are aligned with our goals.
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I will do this. I have to get these blogging requests into my
>> >> schedule, starting this Sat likely. I won't be able to move much on
>> >> any of it until then. My good friend writes those articles for Lansing
>> >> Online News, so for sure can reference that, and will think about how
>> >> this maps to a p2p political advocacy perspective. I am trying to
>> >> build a relationship with the guy at the end of that video (Lansing
>> >> Mayor Virg Bernero) around the Michigan Transformation concepts
>> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Michigan:_The_Transformation_Manifesto
>> >>
>> >> In my opinion, these are signs of a collapsing 20th century economy,
>> >> with Michigan, Iceland, Greece, Ireland, Spain, and other places at
>> >> the forefront of it. We could frankly use the help of people worldwide
>> >> interested in p2p perspectives to think about how to move forward here
>> >> in Michigan. I think there is a real opportunity, and I'll break out
>> >> some of the research over the summer that we are doing with The Five
>> >> Commons Report in Future Forward Institute to address things that are
>> >> specific to this area, which hopefully will help people get a better
>> >> idea. Also will think about an effective way to "map and model" the
>> >> situation here.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Michel Bauwens
>> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > hi sam,
>> >> >
>> >> > you haven't yet featured the internationally underreported michigan
>> >> > situation yet,
>> >> >
>> >> > this would be a good starting point,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://lansingonlinenews.com/news/video-virg-bernero-on-rachel-maddow-warning-about-emergency-financial-managers/
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >> >
>> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> >> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>> >> >
>> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >> Sam Rose
>> >> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
>> >> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> >> skype: samuelrose
>> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> >> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
>> >> http://forwardfound.org
>> >> http://hollymeadcapital.com
>> >> http://p2pfoundation.net
>> >> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> >>
>> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >
>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>> >
>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
>> http://forwardfound.org
>> http://hollymeadcapital.com
>> http://p2pfoundation.net
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
--
Sam Rose
Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://futureforwardinstitute.com
http://forwardfound.org
http://hollymeadcapital.com
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://socialmediaclassroom.com

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan