<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new roman,serif;font-size:large;color:#330099">9/11 was orchestrated by multinational, corporate interests in response to the Seattle NAFTA demonstrations. They and governments are the worst terrorists by far, so yes - a blanket anti-spyware scenario would be far, far preferable.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 7:18 AM Hari DK <<a href="mailto:hari.coding@gmail.com">hari.coding@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I'm genuinely interested and curious in this, since part of my interest is in making data- and AI-based platforms 'safe' enough to enable applications of various sorts.</div><div><br></div><div>Please entertain these questions/challenges from someone who neither pretends to be an activist nor an expert on the topic. Hopefully the discussion won't get 'acrimonious'!</div><div><br></div><div>1) "But to be effective, it must be blanket: no more spying software. Abolition. Period."</div><div><br></div><div>We live in a path-dependent world. A lot of the acceleration of spying technologies has been in the aftermath of 9/11 and we should factor that into the explanation of its presence. Would you still support the abolition of spying software if it meant a 9/11 this year? This week? Tomorrow? Every day?</div><div><br></div><div>2) Keeping the above in mind, surely surveillance to a <i>reasonable extent </i>is the price we have to pay in order to secure ourselves from ourselves. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". </div><div>Could I suggest that, if this is so, instead of a blanket abolition of spying, we should push for better and more oversight through proper governance and process? <br></div><div><br></div><div>3) If you say that better process on when and how to engage spying technology is not possible, then may I say to you - your agenda of "revolution" to achieve this seems to be much more impossible! What are you going to do - force every spying node on the Internet to decommission its tech? How? By pointing a gun to their head?<br></div><div><br></div><div>I'm just the messenger, with a curiosity to learn. Interested in the responses!<br></div><div>Thanks.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 00:22, Pallav Das <<a href="mailto:dpallav@gmail.com" target="_blank">dpallav@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><b><br></b></div><div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:16px"><b><font face="arial, sans-serif">"Among the most glaring omissions in our arsenal as a movement is the absence of a simple statement: we oppose government and corporate surveillance of all kinds, we will never support it, and we will not work with anyone who does. "</font></b></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Friends,</font><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">A new article, "We thought it was fiction", has been uploaded to the Radical Ecological Democracy website. Alfredo Lopez, Melanie Bush, Hamid Khan and Ken Montenegro, our colleagues from "May First Movement Technology", discuss the threat posed by Pegasus, the malicious hacking software, and how <span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">the progressive and “alternatives” communities should organize to push back against this steady erosion of people’s rights, and work to end tech dominance and intrusion into our lives. Please share the article with your networks and join the discussion on REDlistserv. The authors are copied here in case you would like to contact them directly.</span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br></span></font></div><div><a href="https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/" target="_blank">https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/</a><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br></span></font></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Pallav</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><a title="We Thought It Was Fiction" href="https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/" style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px none;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:"Open Sans",serif;font-size:16px;margin:0px;outline:currentcolor none 0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(40,157,204);text-decoration-line:none;display:inline-block;background-color:rgb(40,157,204);border-radius:3px" target="_blank"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px none;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;font-size:12px;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:currentcolor none 0px;padding:5px 10px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline-block">Read more</span></a></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hari Dilip Kumar<div><br></div><div><b><a href="http://www.haridk.me" target="_blank">The Sustainability Problemsolver</a> | <a href="https://actionclimate.org/" target="_blank">Initiative for Climate Action</a></b></div><div><b><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/hari-dilip-kumar-4b566621/" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a></b> | <b>Skype </b>haridk.skype</div><div><br></div></div></div>
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