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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think you might find some answers to
your questions in this article, Hari - <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/surveillance-state-september-11-panic-made-us-vulnerable">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/surveillance-state-september-11-panic-made-us-vulnerable</a><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It gives a very detailed account of how
biased, excessive and either damaging or ineffective the state and
corporate spying in the USA has been post 9/11. Also phenomenally
expensive. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">More information on how the spying
potential of IT is abused by states is available from the
University of Toronto's Citizen Lab (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://citizenlab.ca/">https://citizenlab.ca/</a>). Last
year it exposed the hacking of journalists' phones by an Israeli
spy agency. This has literally put lives in danger, and may have
contributed to the murder of the journalist Jamal Kashoggi in the
Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul in 2018. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">One of the few clever and positive uses
of technology to keep people safe recently is the international
anti-drug smuggling initiative reported on here -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/11/inside-story-most-daring-surveillance-sting-in-history">https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/11/inside-story-most-daring-surveillance-sting-in-history</a>
In this instance, however, only those people who were known
bad actors or in close contact with bad actors were targetted for
surveillance - and this is how any legitimate surveillance
operation should work. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sadly, it is far more common for 'good
actors' - like those protesting racism, or reporting on state
misdemeanours, for example - to be targetted and harassed, which
is just a giant form of state 'phishing' - completely illegitimate
and it should stop immediately.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">But as I don't see any chance that the
military-industrial complex (now including Big Tech) is about to
stop working for and with the Market-State any where any time
soon, and as demands for ethical behaviour don't cut any ice on
this issue as with climate change and so many others, I think the
only realistic position for good actors, be they activists or
journalists, is to assume that their digital communication devices
can and will be hacked at any time, and to take every precaution
accordingly. Including not using a 'smart' phone at all, as in the
preference of one investigative journalist I know. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hope this helps!</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Christine<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/09/21 1:17 am, Hari DK wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+brHUZWEfH=9NG0LkG5DGL5nTcPGWo7imSCG0QXf1DCPo4CZw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>I'm genuinely interested and curious in this, since part of
my interest is in making data- and AI-based platforms 'safe'
enough to enable applications of various sorts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please entertain these questions/challenges from someone
who neither pretends to be an activist nor an expert on the
topic. Hopefully the discussion won't get 'acrimonious'!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) "But to be effective, it must be blanket: no more spying
software. Abolition. Period."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We live in a path-dependent world. A lot of the
acceleration of spying technologies has been in the aftermath
of 9/11 and we should factor that into the explanation of its
presence. Would you still support the abolition of spying
software if it meant a 9/11 this year? This week? Tomorrow?
Every day?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) Keeping the above in mind, surely surveillance to a <i>reasonable
extent </i>is the price we have to pay in order to secure
ourselves from ourselves. "Eternal vigilance is the price of
liberty". </div>
<div>Could I suggest that, if this is so, instead of a blanket
abolition of spying, we should push for better and more
oversight through proper governance and process? <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3) If you say that better process on when and how to engage
spying technology is not possible, then may I say to you -
your agenda of "revolution" to achieve this seems to be much
more impossible! What are you going to do - force every spying
node on the Internet to decommission its tech? How? By
pointing a gun to their head?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm just the messenger, with a curiosity to learn.
Interested in the responses!<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 00:22,
Pallav Das <<a href="mailto:dpallav@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dpallav@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:16px"><b><font
face="arial, sans-serif">"Among the most glaring
omissions in our arsenal as a movement is the
absence of a simple statement: we oppose government
and corporate surveillance of all kinds, we will
never support it, and we will not work with anyone
who does. "</font></b></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<font face="arial, sans-serif">Friends,</font>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">A new article, "We
thought it was fiction", has been uploaded to the
Radical Ecological Democracy website. Alfredo Lopez,
Melanie Bush, Hamid Khan and Ken Montenegro, our
colleagues from "May First Movement Technology", discuss
the threat posed by Pegasus, the malicious hacking
software, and how <span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">the
progressive and “alternatives” communities should
organize to push back against this steady erosion of
people’s rights, and work to end tech dominance and
intrusion into our lives. Please share the article
with your networks and join the discussion on
REDlistserv. The authors are copied here in case you
would like to contact them directly.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><a
href="https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/</a><font
face="arial, sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pallav</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a title="We Thought It Was Fiction"
href="https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/"
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</blockquote>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Hari Dilip Kumar
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><a href="http://www.haridk.me" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">The Sustainability Problemsolver</a> | <a
href="https://actionclimate.org/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Initiative for Climate Action</a></b></div>
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href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/hari-dilip-kumar-4b566621/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LinkedIn</a></b> | <b>Skype </b>haridk.skype</div>
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