[PeDAGoG] [vikalp-sangam-list] Re: A new article on RED website - "We thought it was fiction"

Thu Sep 23 18:38:03 CEST 2021

Dear Christine,

Thank you for your balanced comments and links to reading. Of course I
don't disagree with what you say. Will think over as I learn more. It's
also interesting that those who spy on us have also had their own privacy
removed. According to Snowden's book, *Permanent Record,* it was fully
possible to enter even the President of the USA's name in XKEYSCORE
searches, etc.

Dear Ken, Melanie, Alfredo, Hamid,

Thank you for your comments. I am still not sure I agree with your
conclusions. However, I will step out of the discussion as you have
mentioned that critical questioning may not be welcome. Good luck on your
endeavour,

Best,

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 18:52, Pallav Das <dpallav at gmail.com> wrote:

> Friends,
>
> The following response from the authors of the latest article on the
> Radical Ecological Democracy website, "We thought it was fiction" was just
> uploaded on Gitlab. I'm copying it here for the larger readership. A couple
> of other previous responses are also copied further below. We look forward
> to a healthy discussion.
>
> From* Ken Montenegro, Melanie Bush, Alfredo Lopez and Hamid Khan:*
>
> In discussions about weaponized surveillance, people will sometimes raise
> questions such as:
>
>    1. Would you support the abolition of spying software if it meant
>    increasing terror attacks because there is no monitor?
>    2. Why can’t we just regulate these weapons given that “vigilance is
>    the price of liberty”? Isn’t surveillance a small price to pay for safety?
>    3. Isn’t it impossible to undo the spying built-into modern technology?
>    4. What do we have to hide?
>
> We support an abolitionist approach precisely because spying software has
> not prevented terror attacks. Moreover, the focus of avoiding imaginary
> terror attacks avoids responsibility for the settler colonialist origins of
> what the Stop LAPD Spying Coalition called the “stalker state.” The
> relationship between anti-Blackness and the national security police state
> is made evident here:
> https://stoplapdspying.medium.com/anti-blackness-and-the-national-security-police-state-that-civil-liberties-advocacy-built-f8d1d5418c42)
> If we take an historical perspective and aspire to undo the harm these
> tools cause, then abolition is the only reasonable conclusion.
>
> Abolition is the only reasonable conclusion precisely because attempts at
> reform or regulation end up as spectacular failures. In what is currently
> called the United States, brave folks have always fought to reign in police
> and state violence. Those efforts have largely failed because they preserve
> institutions and practices that are racist and violent to their core and
> from their very foundation. Folks who uphold specious arguments like, “you
> have nothing to hide” or “vigilance is the price of liberty” fail to
> acknowledge how Indigenous and Black folks in the United States have always
> borne the brunt of state surveillance and its ensuing violence. It is part
> and parcel of the very system itself as a means of control and management.
> Abolition removes the “price” from “liberty”; it makes it free.
>
> We are committed to a long-term struggle toward that freedom. While it
> might seem that a world without rampant digital surveillance is impossible,
> we are dedicated to visions of change where technology is about improving
> life and not controlling others. We know there is a possible alternative
> because rampant corporate & governance surveillance is new. Twenty years
> ago, such a dystopia was unimaginable.
>
> Finally, we don’t see questions like the ones above being rooted in
> affirming life. Often these questions above are used facetiously to
> discredit or seem “right” about the issue of surveillance and to defend an
> indefensible system of colonial, capitalist, white supremacist, and
> patriarchy. May First Movement Technology is committed to learning and
> collaboration in our journeys towards the abolition of state violence of
> all sorts, and welcome dialogue that moves us in that direction.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think you might find some answers to your questions in this article,
> Hari -
>
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/surveillance-state-september-11-panic-made-us-vulnerable
>
> It gives a very detailed account of how biased, excessive and either
> damaging or ineffective the state and corporate spying in the USA has been
> post 9/11. Also phenomenally expensive.
>
> More information on how the spying potential of IT is abused by states is
> available from the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab (
> https://citizenlab.ca/). Last year it exposed the hacking of journalists'
> phones by an Israeli spy agency. This has literally put lives in danger,
> and may have contributed to the murder of the journalist  Jamal Kashoggi in
> the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul in 2018.
>
> One of the few clever and positive uses of technology to keep people safe
> recently is the international anti-drug smuggling initiative reported on
> here -
> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/11/inside-story-most-daring-surveillance-sting-in-history
> In this instance, however, only those people who were known bad actors or
> in close contact with bad actors were targetted for surveillance - and this
> is how any legitimate surveillance operation should work.
>
> Sadly, it is far more common for 'good actors' - like those protesting
> racism, or reporting on state misdemeanours, for example - to be targetted
> and harassed, which is just a giant form of state 'phishing' - completely
> illegitimate and it should stop immediately.
>
> But as I don't see any chance that the military-industrial complex (now
> including Big Tech) is about to stop working for and with the Market-State
> any where any time soon, and as demands for ethical behaviour don't cut any
> ice on this issue as with climate change and so many others, I think the
> only realistic position for good actors, be they activists or journalists,
> is to assume that their digital communication devices can and will be
> hacked at any time, and to take every precaution accordingly. Including not
> using a 'smart' phone at all, as in the preference of one investigative
> journalist I know.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Christine
>
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 2:52 PM Pallav Das <dpallav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> *"Among the most glaring omissions in our arsenal as a movement is the
>> absence of a simple statement: we oppose government and corporate
>> surveillance of all kinds, we will never support it, and we will not work
>> with anyone who does. "*
>>
>>
>> Friends,
>>
>> A new article, "We thought it was fiction", has been uploaded to the
>> Radical Ecological Democracy website. Alfredo Lopez, Melanie Bush, Hamid
>> Khan and Ken Montenegro, our colleagues from "May First Movement
>> Technology", discuss the threat posed by Pegasus, the malicious hacking
>> software, and how the progressive and “alternatives” communities should
>> organize to push back against this steady erosion of people’s rights, and
>> work to end tech dominance and intrusion into our lives. Please share the
>> article with your networks and join the discussion on REDlistserv. The
>> authors are copied here in case you would like to contact them directly.
>>
>> https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Pallav
>>
>>
>> Read more
>> <https://www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org/we-thought-it-was-fiction/>
>>
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-- 
Hari Dilip Kumar

*The Sustainability Problemsolver <http://www.haridk.me> | Initiative for
Climate Action <https://actionclimate.org/>*
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