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    Hola...<br>
    <br>
    Parece que est&aacute; dif&iacute;cil que consigamos vernos hoy. El lunes me
    parece bien. Creo que Alejandra tambi&eacute;n puede. Queda saber si Liber
    ya habr&aacute; vuelto del viaje.<br>
    <br>
    Yo sigo pensando que es necesario enviar una propuesta a los grupos,
    si bien modificada, recogiendo las aportaciones de Liber y de Ale o
    las que puedan ir surgiendo. Lo &uacute;nico es que si nos reunimos el
    lunes y decidimos mandarla, llegar&aacute; el martes por la ma&ntilde;ana y mucha
    gente se va a presentar en la reuni&oacute;n de la noche sin haberla le&iacute;do
    o sin haberla digerido. En esas condiciones me parece que s&iacute; puede
    generarse una confusi&oacute;n importante. Eso sin contar con los grupos
    que puedan haberse reunido el martes pasado.<br>
    <br>
    Adem&aacute;s, con estos plazos hay poco margen para que la ronda de
    llamadas a los grupos que ten&iacute;amos que hacer para preguntar por la
    deuda de acciones colectivas del 2009 se aproveche para responder a
    alguna duda puntual que pueda surgir sobre la consulta. Teniendo en
    cuenta todo lo anterior, yo dar&iacute;a por muerta la pretensi&oacute;n de
    obtener una respuesta en la asamblea general de noviembre y
    trasladar&iacute;a todo este aparato a finales de mes, despu&eacute;s del
    encuentro de 'Todo lo que siempre quiso saber...'.<br>
    <br>
    Pero, vaya, si os parece lo discutimos el lunes.<br>
    <br>
    Salud y besos.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    El 28/10/2010 13:09, Angela Alvarez escribi&oacute;:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:AANLkTi=ekf_BRXtW_TeU94boSU9zUD+KHnWB3TCec9e1@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>ya s&eacute; que es puente y que os ir&eacute;is, pero lo mismo volv&eacute;is el
        lunes no muy tarde...</div>
      <div>&nbsp;</div>
      <div>yo podr&iacute;a, qui&eacute;n m&aacute;s podr&iacute;a el lunes por la tarde?<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_quote">El 28 de octubre de 2010 12:52, Libertad
        Bullejos Jim&eacute;nez <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:huria22@gmail.com">huria22@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
        escribi&oacute;:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex;
          margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
          204, 204);">
          <div>Yo me tengo que ir a las 19.30 y puedo quedar a partir de
            las 18.00, s&eacute; que es poco tiempo pero no doy m&aacute;s de m&iacute;
            misma, me voy ma&ntilde;ana de viaje y esta tarde tengo claustro y
            recados varios... adem&aacute;s estoy teniendo con problemas de
            insomnio y me va a dar un infarto!!!!</div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
          <div>C&oacute;mo lo hacemos?</div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
          <div>Os parece muy mal que dejemos la reu pa la semana que
            viene? El martes por la tarde prontito? Estoy un poco al
            l&iacute;mite pero si os parece muy mal yo hoy hago malabares para
            veros en alg&uacute;n momento...</div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
          <div>Besos </div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
          <div>&nbsp;</div>
          <div><br>
            &nbsp;</div>
          <div class="gmail_quote">El 28 de octubre de 2010 11:19,
            Angela Alvarez <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com"
                target="_blank">angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
            escribi&oacute;:
            <div>
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left:
                  1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
                  rgb(204, 204, 204);">
                  <div>holitas,</div>
                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                  <div>Lo de mi casa sigue en pi&eacute;, pero yo hasta las
                    19:30 o las 20:00 no puedo llegar, es lo que
                    tiene&nbsp;el trabajo de oficina!, as&iacute; que si quer&eacute;is
                    quedar antes y yo me uno despu&eacute;s, pues pod&eacute;is quedar
                    en otro sitio.</div>
                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                  <div>Besos!<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">El 28 de octubre de 2010
                    09:31, Alejandra Goded <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:aleleola@gmail.com" target="_blank">aleleola@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                    escribi&oacute;:
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                          style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px
                          0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
                          204);">Vale, en casa de &Aacute;ngela a las 18:30?<br>
                          <br>
                          Gracias por tu comprensi&oacute;n, Dani, pero la
                          verdad es que yo me he dado cuenta de que
                          hab&iacute;a que darle una vuelta m&aacute;s a lo que
                          tenemos que decir y quer&iacute;a proponer alg&uacute;n
                          cambio (sobre todo ahora que vamos a tener un
                          grupo nuevo de 3 bolsas... y contando)<br>
                          <br>
                          Besos<br>
                          <br>
                          Ale<br>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">El 26 de octubre de
                            2010 19:13, Angela Alvarez <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank">angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                            escribi&oacute;:
                            <div>
                              <div><br>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0pt
                                  0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
                                  rgb(204, 204, 204);">
                                  <div>toca mi casa!</div>
                                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                  <div>peque&ntilde;a, pero como no habr&aacute;
                                    despliegue de ordenadores pues
                                    cabemos.</div>
                                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                  <div>C/ Narciso Serra, 9, 4&ordm; puerta 6.</div>
                                  <div>&nbsp;Metro Menendez Pelayo</div>
                                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                  <div>Besos!<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">El 26 de
                                    octubre de 2010 18:46, <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:manulopezruiz@nodo50.org"
                                      target="_blank">manulopezruiz@nodo50.org</a>
                                    <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:manulopezruiz@nodo50.org"
                                        target="_blank">manulopezruiz@nodo50.org</a>&gt;</span>
                                    escribi&oacute;:
                                    <div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                          style="padding-left: 1ex;
                                          margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                          border-left: 1px solid
                                          rgb(204, 204, 204);">
                                          <div bgcolor="#ffffff"
                                            text="#000000">Contesto a lo
                                            urgente ahora y dejo para
                                            esta noche lo importante. Si
                                            os parece bien quedamos el
                                            jueves. Donde dig&aacute;is.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Salud y besos.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
                                            El 26/10/2010 17:23,
                                            Libertad Bullejos Jim&eacute;nez
                                            escribi&oacute;:
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <blockquote type="cite">por
                                                  m&iacute; el jueves bien, si
                                                  no es muy tarde que el
                                                  viernes me levanto a
                                                  las 6 de la ma&ntilde;ana...<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  Bss<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">El
                                                    26 de octubre de
                                                    2010 17:04, Angela
                                                    Alvarez <span
                                                      dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com" target="_blank">angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                    escribi&oacute;:<br>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      class="gmail_quote"
                                                      style="padding-left:
                                                      1ex; margin: 0pt
                                                      0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
                                                      border-left: 1px
                                                      solid rgb(204,
                                                      204, 204);">
                                                      <div>Atisbo el
                                                        consenso al
                                                        menos en lo de
                                                        quedar.</div>
                                                      <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                      <div>Yo tengo una
                                                        reu el mi&eacute;rcoles
                                                        y saldr&eacute; tipo
                                                        19:00... pero el
                                                        jueves lo tengo
                                                        bien.</div>
                                                      <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                      <div>Besos!<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="gmail_quote">El
                                                        26 de octubre de
                                                        2010 16:41,
                                                        Alejandra Goded
                                                        <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:aleleola@gmail.com" target="_blank">aleleola@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                        escribi&oacute;:
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0px 0px 0px
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">Vale,
                                                          no me viene
                                                          muy bien
                                                          quedar esta
                                                          semana, pero
                                                          entiendo que
                                                          hay que
                                                          matizar
                                                          algunas de las
                                                          cosas que
                                                          vamos a decir
                                                          y que conviene
                                                          revisarlas un
                                                          poco primero o
                                                          directamente
                                                          no decirlas,
                                                          as&iacute; que por m&iacute;
                                                          podemos quedar
                                                          mi&eacute;rcoles,
                                                          jueves o
                                                          viernes por la
                                                          tarde.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          El mi&eacute;rcoles a
                                                          las 20:30 me
                                                          tengo que ir,
                                                          as&iacute; que
                                                          tendr&iacute;a que
                                                          ser pronto. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Qu&eacute; tal ten&eacute;is
                                                          la semana el
                                                          resto?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">El
                                                          26 de octubre
                                                          de 2010 00:01,
                                                          Libertad
                                                          Bullejos
                                                          Jim&eacute;nez <span
                                                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:huria22@gmail.com" target="_blank">huria22@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                          escribi&oacute;:
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0pt 0pt 0pt
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">Buenas,
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          La verdad es
                                                          que yo me he
                                                          quedado un
                                                          poco bloqueada
                                                          por como se ha
                                                          desarrollado
                                                          todo... el
                                                          viernes
                                                          despu&eacute;s de la
                                                          reuni&oacute;n estuve
                                                          charlando con
                                                          Dani y me
                                                          surgieron
                                                          dudas sobre lo
                                                          que &iacute;bamos a
                                                          hacer sobre
                                                          todo porque me
                                                          pareci&oacute; que
                                                          nos hab&iacute;a
                                                          faltado otro
                                                          tipo de
                                                          visi&oacute;n; pienso
                                                          que los que
                                                          estabamos en
                                                          la reu tenemos
                                                          tendencia a
                                                          fijarnos m&aacute;s
                                                          en la cuesti&oacute;n
                                                          de que cuadren
                                                          las cuentas y
                                                          esto sigo
                                                          pensando que
                                                          es importante
                                                          pero
                                                          encontrando un
                                                          equilibrio con
                                                          otras, y da la
                                                          casualidad de
                                                          que justo el
                                                          que faltaba es
                                                          el aporta una
                                                          visi&oacute;n
                                                          distinta. No
                                                          pienso que
                                                          ninguna de las
                                                          dos visiones
                                                          sea la
                                                          "buena", de
                                                          hecho pienso
                                                          que debe ser
                                                          un equilibrio
                                                          entre las dos,
                                                          pero es que el
                                                          otro d&iacute;a
                                                          est&aacute;bamos s&oacute;lo
                                                          los
                                                          "contables" de
                                                          la comisi&oacute;n (y
                                                          esto lo digo
                                                          con cari&ntilde;o,
                                                          que nadie se
                                                          ofenda porfi).
                                                          Por eso
                                                          despu&eacute;s de la
                                                          charla le dije
                                                          a Dani que
                                                          mandara un
                                                          mail
                                                          planteando las
                                                          dudas y
                                                          despu&eacute;s a
                                                          venido lo
                                                          dem&aacute;s... y la
                                                          verdad es que
                                                          tampoco s&eacute; muy
                                                          bien como se
                                                          sigue ahora...
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Entiendo que
                                                          resulte
                                                          chocante que
                                                          despu&eacute;s de una
                                                          decisi&oacute;n
                                                          tomada ocurra
                                                          esto pero
                                                          tambi&eacute;n
                                                          entiendo que
                                                          el objetivo es
                                                          hacer lo mejor
                                                          para el Bah, y
                                                          como a m&iacute; me
                                                          han surgido
                                                          dudas por eso
                                                          me pareci&oacute;
                                                          bien que se
                                                          plantearan...
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Sigo pensando
                                                          que todo esto
                                                          es mejor
                                                          hablarlo en
                                                          persona que
                                                          por mail que
                                                          se malentiende
                                                          todo, pero
                                                          vosotros
                                                          dir&eacute;is...<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Besotes<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">El
                                                          25 de octubre
                                                          de 2010 23:09,
                                                          Angela Alvarez
                                                          <span
                                                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com"
                                                          target="_blank">angela.alvarez.sch@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                          escribi&oacute;:
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0pt 0pt 0pt
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">
                                                          <div>hola
                                                          amigos,</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>hay
                                                          varias cosas
                                                          interesantes
                                                          que comentar,
                                                          pero creo que
                                                          eso lo podemos
                                                          hacer con una
                                                          ca&ntilde;a delante
                                                          cuando
                                                          queramos, de
                                                          momento&nbsp;hay
                                                          que decidir
                                                          que hacemos
                                                          ma&ntilde;ana.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>Parece
                                                          que Alejandra
                                                          y Andr&eacute;s tiene
                                                          claro en
                                                          seguir
                                                          adelante con
                                                          la decisi&oacute;n
                                                          del viernes,
                                                          Liber tiene
                                                          sus dudas... y
                                                          yo por mi
                                                          parte, despu&eacute;s
                                                          de leer los
                                                          argumentos y
                                                          darle unas
                                                          vueltas sigo
                                                          pensando que
                                                          se trata de un
                                                          tema bastante
                                                          objetivo y
                                                          concreto, es
                                                          una situaci&oacute;n
                                                          que no se
                                                          puede mantener
                                                          en el largo
                                                          plazo y sobre
                                                          la que hay que
                                                          tomar una
                                                          decisi&oacute;n. No
                                                          obstante, creo
                                                          que hay que
                                                          plantearlo con
                                                          mucha calma y
                                                          sin darle
                                                          demasiado
                                                          bombo para que
                                                          nadie se ponga
                                                          nervioso y
                                                          esto no se
                                                          convierta en
                                                          el &uacute;nico punto
                                                          de los tres
                                                          pr&oacute;ximos
                                                          meses.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>En
                                                          conclusi&oacute;n,
                                                          desde mi punto
                                                          de vista, creo
                                                          que ma&ntilde;ana
                                                          Andr&eacute;s deber&iacute;a
                                                          mandar el mail
                                                          que qued&oacute; en
                                                          enviar, eso
                                                          s&iacute;, con el
                                                          tono m&aacute;s suave
                                                          posible, sin
                                                          alarmas y el
                                                          resto llamar a
                                                          los grupos que
                                                          nos
                                                          repartimos.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>Ummm,
                                                          como no s&eacute;
                                                          mucho de rollo
                                                          asambleario
                                                          pues no s&eacute;
                                                          como se sigue
                                                          ahora, no s&eacute;
                                                          si en una
                                                          comisi&oacute;n se
                                                          vota o no, o
                                                          hay que llegar
                                                          a la
                                                          unanimidad o
                                                          qu&eacute;... pero s&iacute;
                                                          creo que Liber
                                                          y Dani
                                                          deber&iacute;ais
                                                          volver a
                                                          manifestaros
                                                          al respecto a
                                                          ver si podemos
                                                          llegar a alg&uacute;n
                                                          punto.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>Freakonomicsbesos!</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          &nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">El
                                                          25 de octubre
                                                          de 2010 18:10,
                                                          Alejandra
                                                          Goded <span
                                                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:aleleola@gmail.com" target="_blank">aleleola@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                          escribi&oacute;:
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0px 0px 0px
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">Queridos
                                                          pap&aacute; pitufo y
                                                          freakonomics:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Creo que esta
                                                          comisi&oacute;n es
                                                          aut&oacute;noma y
                                                          soberana para
                                                          tomar
                                                          decisiones y
                                                          que la reuni&oacute;n
                                                          del otro d&iacute;a
                                                          debe ser
                                                          considerada
                                                          decisoria. No
                                                          me parece
                                                          justo que se
                                                          ponga en
                                                          cuesti&oacute;n esta
                                                          autonom&iacute;a.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Creo tambi&eacute;n
                                                          que presuponer
                                                          que los grupos
                                                          sentir&aacute;n
                                                          frustraci&oacute;n al
                                                          recibir
                                                          nuestro
                                                          mensaje es
                                                          algo
                                                          aventurado y
                                                          que paralizar
                                                          las consultas
                                                          que creemos
                                                          necesarias
                                                          porque a lo
                                                          mejor parece
                                                          ser que pueden
                                                          hacer sentir
                                                          mal a algunas
                                                          personas no
                                                          creo que est&eacute;
                                                          suficientemente
                                                          justificado.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          En cuanto a
                                                          los
                                                          argumentos,
                                                          entiendo que
                                                          hay que
                                                          preguntarse si
                                                          es el momento
                                                          adecuado para
                                                          lanzar el
                                                          mensaje, pero
                                                          a la larga me
                                                          parece m&aacute;s
                                                          adecuado
                                                          hacerlo ahora
                                                          a pesar de que
                                                          la cooperativa
                                                          quiere
                                                          centrarse en
                                                          temas m&aacute;s
                                                          pol&iacute;ticos
                                                          porque estamos
                                                          a tiempo de
                                                          arreglarlo
                                                          ahora que es
                                                          un problema
                                                          peque&ntilde;o.&nbsp;
                                                          Adem&aacute;s,
                                                          queremos
                                                          facilitar la
                                                          decisi&oacute;n
                                                          ofrenciendo
                                                          opciones
                                                          claras para
                                                          que no se
                                                          alargue
                                                          demasiado el
                                                          debate en los
                                                          grupos. Y si
                                                          alg&uacute;n grupo
                                                          quiere
                                                          alargarse m&aacute;s,
                                                          debemos dejar
                                                          que ejerzan su
                                                          autonom&iacute;a y
                                                          decidan ellos
                                                          qu&eacute; temas les
                                                          parecen m&aacute;s
                                                          importantes.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Pienso que se
                                                          debe advertir
                                                          cuando antes a
                                                          los grupos de
                                                          que aunque no
                                                          se haya
                                                          decidido fijar
                                                          el n&uacute;mero de
                                                          bolsas
                                                          (cuesti&oacute;n que
                                                          tiene de
                                                          pol&iacute;tica y de
                                                          organizativa a
                                                          partes
                                                          iguales) si se
                                                          sigue haciendo
                                                          unilateralmente
                                                          puede
                                                          repercutir en
                                                          las cuentas
                                                          que con tanto
                                                          esfuerzo se
                                                          aprobaron en
                                                          el anterior
                                                          plenario y eso
                                                          s&iacute; que puede
                                                          ser
                                                          frustrante. Si
                                                          no se advierte
                                                          ahora, los
                                                          grupos pueden
                                                          seguir bajando
                                                          hasta que el
                                                          problema se
                                                          vuelva m&aacute;s
                                                          dif&iacute;cil de
                                                          manejar.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          De todas
                                                          formas, no le
                                                          descubrimos
                                                          Am&eacute;rica a
                                                          nadie si
                                                          hacemos notar
                                                          que el tema
                                                          del n&uacute;mero de
                                                          bolsas sigue
                                                          pendiente de
                                                          cerrar.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Si lo cre&eacute;is
                                                          necesario,
                                                          podemos hacer
                                                          otra reuni&oacute;n,
                                                          pero recalco
                                                          que me parece
                                                          injusto y que
                                                          preferir&iacute;a que
                                                          no se
                                                          convirtiera en
                                                          una costumbre,
                                                          aunque acepto
                                                          que puede
                                                          haber matices
                                                          en esta
                                                          cuesti&oacute;n en
                                                          los que no
                                                          hemos ca&iacute;do.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Besos<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">El
                                                          25 de octubre
                                                          de 2010 17:29,
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:manulopezruiz@nodo50.org" target="_blank">manulopezruiz@nodo50.org</a>
                                                          <span
                                                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:manulopezruiz@nodo50.org"
                                                          target="_blank">manulopezruiz@nodo50.org</a>&gt;</span>
                                                          escribi&oacute;:
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0pt 0pt 0pt
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">
                                                          <div
                                                          bgcolor="#ffffff"
                                                          text="#000000">No
                                                          es que quiera
                                                          ignorar a
                                                          pitufo gru&ntilde;&oacute;n,
                                                          es que el
                                                          s&aacute;bado no
                                                          consult&eacute; el
                                                          correo y el
                                                          domingo me
                                                          qued&eacute; bastante
                                                          frustrado al
                                                          leer el
                                                          mensaje de
                                                          Dani. He
                                                          preferido
                                                          contar hasta
                                                          veinte, pero
                                                          &Aacute;ngela ha
                                                          escrito y a m&iacute;
                                                          no me ha dado
                                                          tiempo de
                                                          llegar m&aacute;s que
                                                          a doce o
                                                          trece.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          En primer
                                                          lugar, me han
                                                          llamado la
                                                          atenci&oacute;n los
                                                          tiempos
                                                          verbales. No
                                                          es 'vais a
                                                          preguntar no
                                                          s&eacute; qu&eacute; a los
                                                          grupos'. Es,
                                                          m&aacute;s bien,
                                                          'vamos a
                                                          preguntar' a
                                                          los grupos.
                                                          Quiero decir:
                                                          va a ser una
                                                          pregunta que
                                                          formula la
                                                          comisi&oacute;n de la
                                                          que formamos
                                                          parte, Dani
                                                          incluido. Si
                                                          Dani no forma
                                                          parte de la
                                                          comisi&oacute;n, no
                                                          entiendo el
                                                          prop&oacute;sito de
                                                          su mensaje.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          M&aacute;s adelante
                                                          Dani escribe
                                                          'no conozco
                                                          exactamente la
                                                          consulta',
                                                          pero sin
                                                          embargo la
                                                          califica de
                                                          'muy t&eacute;cnica'.
                                                          (Ojo, no solo
                                                          de 't&eacute;cnica',
                                                          sino de 'muy
                                                          t&eacute;cnica'). A
                                                          continuaci&oacute;n
                                                          comenta que la
                                                          consulta
                                                          producir&iacute;a la
                                                          sensaci&oacute;n de
                                                          que las
                                                          cuentas del
                                                          BAH! son algo
                                                          muy
                                                          complicado.
                                                          Pues bien,
                                                          resulta que
                                                          las cuentas
                                                          del BAH! s&iacute;
                                                          son, al menos,
                                                          bastante
                                                          complicadas.
                                                          Tanto como
                                                          para necesitar
                                                          de una
                                                          comisi&oacute;n.
                                                          Tanto como
                                                          para necesitar
                                                          un grupo
                                                          humano que
                                                          vino a dar
                                                          relevo a otro
                                                          grupo que
                                                          reconoc&iacute;a
                                                          estar
                                                          quem&aacute;ndose.
                                                          Tanto como
                                                          para que el
                                                          relevo tuviera
                                                          que ser
                                                          gradual,
                                                          incluyendo
                                                          reuniones de
                                                          formaci&oacute;n.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          &Aacute;ngela ya ha
                                                          explicado en
                                                          buena medida,
                                                          en que
                                                          consiste la
                                                          consulta que
                                                          acordamos
                                                          hacer. Baste
                                                          por ahora
                                                          recordar que
                                                          durante la
                                                          reuni&oacute;n apenas
                                                          le dedicamos
                                                          un minuto a
                                                          analizar si
                                                          este era un
                                                          tema s&oacute;lo en
                                                          apariencia
                                                          pol&iacute;tico. A
                                                          todas las
                                                          personas que
                                                          participamos
                                                          en la reuni&oacute;n
                                                          nos pareci&oacute;
                                                          bastante
                                                          evidente que
                                                          no. Podemos
                                                          habernos
                                                          equivocado,
                                                          claro, pero
                                                          estamos
                                                          hablando de
                                                          asuntos como
                                                          la cuota, el
                                                          porcentaje
                                                          cubierto por
                                                          las acciones
                                                          colectivas, el
                                                          uso general de
                                                          los fondos o
                                                          el numero
                                                          total de
                                                          bolsas de la
                                                          cooperativa.
                                                          Descubrir que
                                                          a veces son
                                                          dignos de un
                                                          plenario y a
                                                          veces son
                                                          asuntos muy
                                                          t&eacute;cnicos que
                                                          pueden
                                                          resolverse sin
                                                          ni siquiera
                                                          una consulta a
                                                          la asamblea
                                                          general quiz&aacute;
                                                          podr&iacute;a
                                                          resultarle
                                                          frustrante
                                                          para una parte
                                                          de la
                                                          cooperativa.
                                                          Hablo en
                                                          condicional,
                                                          en futuro,
                                                          (nuevamente
                                                          los&nbsp; tiempos
                                                          verbales) no
                                                          me atrevo a
                                                          erigirme en
                                                          interprete de
                                                          los
                                                          sentimientos
                                                          de un grupo de
                                                          alrededor de
                                                          doscientas
                                                          personas de
                                                          las cuales
                                                          igual no
                                                          conozco a la
                                                          mitad.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Lo que s&iacute; me
                                                          resulta
                                                          indudablemente
                                                          frustrante es
                                                          asistir a las
                                                          reuniones de
                                                          mi comisi&oacute;n,
                                                          exprimir mis
                                                          energ&iacute;as y mi
                                                          saber hacer
                                                          t&eacute;cnico y
                                                          organizativo
                                                          para que luego
                                                          venga alguien
                                                          con malos
                                                          modos a
                                                          intentar
                                                          marcarme la
                                                          l&iacute;nea pol&iacute;tica
                                                          por correo
                                                          electr&oacute;nico al
                                                          mismo tiempo
                                                          que reconoce
                                                          no saber bien
                                                          de qu&eacute; va el
                                                          asunto. Aqu&iacute;
                                                          si escribo en
                                                          presente de
                                                          indicativo,
                                                          primera
                                                          persona del
                                                          singular,
                                                          porque s&eacute; de
                                                          lo que hablo.
                                                          En cualquier
                                                          caso, que todo
                                                          este episodio
                                                          me resulte
                                                          algo
                                                          frustrante es
                                                          lo de menos.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Me estoy
                                                          acordando de
                                                          aquella chica,
                                                          en otro
                                                          colectivo, que
                                                          ante
                                                          determinada
                                                          resoluci&oacute;n de
                                                          la asamblea
                                                          dijo que 'se
                                                          sent&iacute;a
                                                          agredida' por
                                                          la decisi&oacute;n.
                                                          Los
                                                          sentimientos
                                                          me parecen un
                                                          detalle digno
                                                          de menci&oacute;n y
                                                          de ser tomado
                                                          en cuenta,
                                                          pero no me
                                                          parecen un
                                                          criterio
                                                          orientaci&oacute;n
                                                          v&aacute;lido para
                                                          tomar
                                                          decisiones en
                                                          una asamblea.
                                                          Ah&iacute;, pienso
                                                          yo, hacen
                                                          falta
                                                          criterios
                                                          pol&iacute;ticos y
                                                          t&eacute;cnicos, es
                                                          decir,
                                                          racionales.
                                                          Por tanto, la
                                                          posibilidad de
                                                          que *quiz&aacute;*
                                                          *alguna gente*
                                                          *pueda*
                                                          sentirse
                                                          frustrada por
                                                          una consulta a
                                                          la asamblea
                                                          general no me
                                                          parece
                                                          argumento
                                                          suficiente.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Dicho esto,
                                                          &iquest;es necesario
                                                          quedar para
                                                          que Dani
                                                          *intente*
                                                          desbaratarnos
                                                          los planes o,
                                                          mejor a&uacute;n,
                                                          para que nos
                                                          ofrezca
                                                          razones
                                                          t&eacute;cnicas y
                                                          pol&iacute;ticas a
                                                          partir de las
                                                          cuales buscar
                                                          una soluci&oacute;n
                                                          consensuada?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Salud y besos.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          El 25/10/2010
                                                          12:26, Angela
                                                          Alvarez
                                                          escribi&oacute;:
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>Hola,</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>aunque
                                                          queramos
                                                          ignorar a
                                                          Pitufo gru&ntilde;&oacute;n
                                                          el caso es que
                                                          ha hablado...
                                                          y qu&eacute;,
                                                          &iquest;seguimos
                                                          adelante con
                                                          las decisiones
                                                          que tomamos el
                                                          viernes? nos
                                                          reunimos "de
                                                          urgencia" para
                                                          seguir
                                                          reflexionando?</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>Dani, el
                                                          tema es muy
                                                          sencillo, hay
                                                          dos grupos que
                                                          han bajado una
                                                          bolsa y hemos
                                                          pasado de 102
                                                          a 100; eso
                                                          significa que
                                                          como las
                                                          cuotas est&aacute;n
                                                          calculadas
                                                          para 102 pues
                                                          estamos
                                                          recogiendo
                                                          menos dinero
                                                          del
                                                          presupuestado
                                                          y necesario.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>a) En el
                                                          corto plazo:
                                                          No s epuede
                                                          sostener la
                                                          situaci&oacute;n
                                                          indefinidamente
                                                          as&iacute;, sin tomar
                                                          medidas,
                                                          porque el
                                                          agujero crece.
                                                          As&iacute; que
                                                          alguien tiene
                                                          que decidir
                                                          como se
                                                          compensa este
                                                          dinero;
                                                          teniendo en
                                                          cuenta que los
                                                          grupos
                                                          expusieron
                                                          varias veces
                                                          en las
                                                          asambleas su
                                                          decisi&oacute;n y
                                                          nadie les dijo
                                                          que no, creo
                                                          que no
                                                          podemos&nbsp;devolverle
                                                          el problema a
                                                          los grupos por
                                                          cuenta y
                                                          riesgo del
                                                          Comec&oacute;n sin
                                                          consultar con
                                                          nadie.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>b) En el
                                                          medio plazo:
                                                          Si existe (que
                                                          no lo sabemos)
                                                          un acuerdo
                                                          sobre que los
                                                          grupos no
                                                          pueden bajarse
                                                          las bolsas sin
                                                          que las asuma
                                                          otro, hay que
                                                          recordarlo y
                                                          ratificarlo,
                                                          puesto que
                                                          nadie pueso
                                                          esta objeci&oacute;n
                                                          en las
                                                          asambleas
                                                          correspondientes.
                                                          En caso de no
                                                          ratificarse
                                                          establecer
                                                          alguna f&oacute;rmula
                                                          para estas
                                                          situaciones.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>El otro
                                                          tema que
                                                          quer&iacute;amos
                                                          consultar es
                                                          lo de la pasta
                                                          de AC
                                                          colectivas de
                                                          2009, que creo
                                                          que no es nada
                                                          grabe y se
                                                          trata
                                                          simplemente de
                                                          controlar que
                                                          los datos que
                                                          estamos
                                                          manejando son
                                                          ok; pero si se
                                                          plantea bien y
                                                          tranqui nadie
                                                          tiene porqu&eacute;
                                                          ponerse
                                                          nervioso por
                                                          eso.</div>
                                                          <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                                          <div>Saludos!
                                                          freakonomics<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">El
                                                          22 de octubre
                                                          de 2010 21:07,
                                                          dani <span
                                                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dani.berzas@gmail.com"
                                                          target="_blank">dani.berzas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                          escribi&oacute;:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="padding-left:
                                                          1ex; margin:
                                                          0px 0px 0px
                                                          0.8ex;
                                                          border-left:
                                                          1px solid
                                                          rgb(204, 204,
                                                          204);">Hola,<br>
                                                          he estado
                                                          chateando con
                                                          Liber y me ha
                                                          dejado un poco
                                                          preocupado
                                                          porque dice
                                                          que v&aacute;is a
                                                          preguntar no
                                                          se qu&eacute; a los
                                                          grupos.<br>
                                                          No conozco
                                                          exactamente la
                                                          consulta pero
                                                          me preocupa.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          "Acabamos" de
                                                          tener un
                                                          plenario
                                                          econ&oacute;mico que
                                                          ha dejado las
                                                          cosas m&aacute;s o
                                                          menos atadas
                                                          hasta 2013, si
                                                          no recuerdo
                                                          mal.<br>
                                                          Creo que una
                                                          consulta muy
                                                          t&eacute;cnica a los
                                                          grupos ahora
                                                          producir&iacute;a:<br>
                                                          1) sensaci&oacute;n
                                                          de que el BAH,
                                                          y sus cuentas,
                                                          son algo muy
                                                          complicado.
                                                          Eso resulta
                                                          algo
                                                          frustrante.<br>
                                                          2) sensaci&oacute;n
                                                          de que el
                                                          plenario no se
                                                          cerr&oacute; el tema
                                                          del todo. Eso
                                                          resulta algo
                                                          frustrante.<br>
                                                          3) puede abrir
                                                          temas de
                                                          debate
                                                          econ&oacute;mico en
                                                          este momento,
                                                          en el que hay
                                                          gente
                                                          intentando
                                                          cambiar la
                                                          agenda hacia
                                                          temas m&aacute;s
                                                          pol&iacute;ticos. <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Yo intentar&iacute;a
                                                          tomar la
                                                          decisi&oacute;n entre
                                                          nosotros,
                                                          pensando m&aacute;s
                                                          en el bien del
                                                          BAH que en que
                                                          cuadren los
                                                          n&uacute;meros. Creo
                                                          que todav&iacute;a
                                                          tenemos margen
                                                          de maniobra
                                                          econ&oacute;mica para
                                                          ser flexibles
                                                          en algunas
                                                          cosas. (No s&eacute;
                                                          por qu&eacute; lo
                                                          creo, si no s&eacute;
                                                          como est&aacute;n las
                                                          cuentas).<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As&iacute; que me
                                                          gustar&iacute;a que
                                                          and&aacute;is
                                                          tramando para
                                                          desbarataros
                                                          los planes...
                                                          jia jia jia.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Besos a todas.<br>
                                                          Ya solo me
                                                          queda escribir
                                                          un libro.<br
                                                          clear="all">
                                                          <font
                                                          color="#888888"><br>
                                                          -- <br>
                                                          _)_/\_|\|_|_<br>
                                                          </font><br>
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                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre>
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                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
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                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
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                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
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                                                  <pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <br>
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                                          <br>
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                          </div>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
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              </div>
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      <pre wrap="">
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</pre>
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